Freethought & Rationalism Archive

aa5874 · 03-22-2007, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pariah2000

Greetings,
Im a long time fan of the boards, first time poster.
A topic that has always bothered me about the bible is that we are supposedly made in God's image. Does this mean that God has nipples and a belly button? Does God have reproductive organs? If so then what questions does this raise? Please share your views..

Although I do not have a photo of the God of Abraham, the Christian Bible claims he has a right hand,(Mark 16:9)and left hand (matthew 25:41) It is likely that he has a backside, since he sits on a throne, (matthew 22:23). He should have a mouth, ear, eyes, since, in the bible, he talks, hears and sees. (Genesis 3.)

I am not sure if he has reproductive organs, however in the bible, he has sons who had sexual relations with the daughters of men,(Genesis 6:2 and Job 1:6). And, if the NT is true, then God can send his holy ghost to any female he selects to maintain his family name. It also appeared that he had feet, since he walked in the garden of Eden while he looked for Adam and Eve,(Genesis 3:8)

Notwithstanding my description of God,according to the bible, this passage was drawn to my attention, 1 John 4:12, "No man hath seen God at any time...."

I guess that God was just someone's imagination, i.e, made by man's image-ination.

John Kesler · 03-22-2007, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gamera

This is clearly contradicted by the theme (I cited earlier) that to see what God really is is to perish.

Is Exodus 33:20 what you have in mind? "No one can see [Yahweh] and live." This is an interesting passage, because in its full context, the text shows that there is not a conflict between Yahweh's not being visible as he "really is" and having a form:

Quote:

Exodus 33:12-23:
12 Moses said to Yahweh, "See, you have said to me, 'Bring up this people'; but you have not let me know whom you will send with me. Yet you have said, 'I know you by name, and you have also found favor in my sight.' 13 Now if I have found favor in your sight, show me your ways, so that I may know you and find favor in your sight. Consider too that this nation is your people." 14 He said, "My presence will go with you, and I will give you rest." 15 And he said to him, "If your presence will not go, do not carry us up from here. 16 For how shall it be known that I have found favor in your sight, I and your people, unless you go with us? In this way, we shall be distinct, I and your people, from every people on the face of the earth."
17 Yahweh said to Moses, "I will do the very thing that you have asked; for you have found favor in my sight, and I know you by name." 18 Moses said, "Show me your glory, I pray." 19 And he said, "I will make all my goodness pass before you, and will proclaim before you the name, 'Yahweh';a and I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy. 20 But," he said, "you cannot see my face; for no one shall see me and live." 21 And Yahweh continued, "See, there is a place by me where you shall stand on the rock; 22 and while my glory passes by I will put you in a cleft of the rock, and I will cover you with my hand until I have passed by; 23 then I will take away my hand, and you shall see my back; but my face shall not be seen."

Gamera · 03-23-2007, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Kesler

Is Exodus 33:20 what you have in mind? "No one can see [Yahweh] and live." This is an interesting passage, because in its full context, the text shows that there is not a conflict between Yahweh's not being visible as he "really is" and having a form:

This theme recurs, whatever it means. But I think at the least it means God doesn't "look" like us in any physical sense, and that being made in his image is a spiritual/moral comparison..

Genesis 16:13 - So she called the name of the LORD who spoke to her, "Thou art a God of seeing"; for she said, "Have I really seen God and remained alive after seeing him?"

Genesis 32:30 - So Jacob called the name of the place Peni'el, saying, "For I have seen God face to face, and yet my life is preserved."

Deuteronomy 5:24 - and you said, 'Behold, the LORD our God has shown us his glory and greatness, and we have heard his voice out of the midst of the fire; we have this day seen God speak with man and man still live.

Judges 13:22 - And Mano'ah said to his wife, "We shall surely die, for we have seen God."

In Genesis 33, if God really had a face and hands and back like us, then of course, we would die just because we saw his face. So something weirder is going on.

John Kesler · 03-23-2007, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gamera

In Genesis 33, if God really had a face and hands and back like us, then of course, we would die just because we saw his face. So something weirder is going on.

But in some of the very verses which you just quoted, people did see God's face and didn't die. Heck, even in Exodus 33, the chapter which contains the verse claiming that God's face can't be seen, we have this:

Quote:

8 Whenever Moses went out to the tent, all the people would rise and stand, each of them, at the entrance of their tents and watch Moses until he had gone into the tent. 9 When Moses entered the tent, the pillar of cloud would descend and stand at the entrance of the tent, and Yahweh would speak with Moses. 10 When all the people saw the pillar of cloud standing at the entrance of the tent, all the people would rise and bow down, all of them, at the entrance of their tent. 11 Thus Yahweh used to speak to Moses face to face, as one speaks to a friend.

xaxxat · 03-23-2007, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gamera

You mean by giving them free will? The question answers itself.

No, I mean by expecting them to know good and evil before they would eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil...

Duh...

neilgodfrey · 03-23-2007, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gamera

To fear God is a choice, or it wouldn't be an issue.

Any and every writing that addresses ethical issues inevitably addresses "choices". But each writing needs first to be understood through the issues of its own culture, and while it's not wrong to interpret texts through our own philosophical traditions we need to be aware of the difference.

spamandham · 03-23-2007, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pariah2000

Greetings,
Im a long time fan of the boards, first time poster.
A topic that has always bothered me about the bible is that we are supposedly made in God's image. Does this mean that God has nipples and a belly button? Does God have reproductive organs? If so then what questions does this raise? Please share your views..

Stand nude in front of a mirror, and see for yourself the answer to these questions.

spamandham · 03-23-2007, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gamera

You mean by giving them free will? The question answers itself.

Yes, by giving them free will. I'd rather be a programmed robot than sent to burn forever. God did not give me that choice. He denied me my free will to decline free will.

Gundulf · 03-24-2007, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pariah2000

Greetings,
Im a long time fan of the boards, first time poster.
A topic that has always bothered me about the bible is that we are supposedly made in God's image. Does this mean that God has nipples and a belly button? Does God have reproductive organs? If so then what questions does this raise? Please share your views..

As to the OP, the term "image" does imply that the copy is not the same as the original. An image of a human in a photograph or a statue is not made of cells, has no pumping heart, usable reproductive organs, etc...

Image generally implies that there is some particular similarity/ies, albeit of a totally different substance.

xaxxat · 03-24-2007, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gundulf

As to the OP, the term "image" does imply that the copy is not the same as the original. An image of a human in a photograph or a statue is not made of cells, has no pumping heart, usable reproductive organs, etc...

Image generally implies that there is some particular similarity/ies, albeit of a totally different substance.

If the image is alive, what qualities of the original would you expect it to have?

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