Freethought & Rationalism Archive

GaryP · 08-16-2004, 10:01 AM

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...hn_the_baptist

"John the Baptist, who was just a figure from the Gospels, now comes to life," said British archaeologist Shimon Gibson, who supervised the dig outside Jerusalem.

However, others said there was no proof that John the Baptist ever set foot in the cave, about 2 1/2 miles from Ein Kerem, the preacher's hometown and now part of Jerusalem.

Amaleq13 · 08-16-2004, 10:17 AM

Unless they aren't describing some pretty important evidence, they seem to be speculating quite heavily.

Where, in the Bible or Christian tradition, is John's hometown identified?

Chili · 08-16-2004, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amaleq13

Where, in the Bible or Christian tradition, is John's hometown identified?

He was from the "netherworld" = subconscious mind.

Artemus · 08-16-2004, 11:17 AM

From the article:

Quote:

Both Tabor and Gibson said it was very likely that the wall carvings, including one showing a man with a staff and wearing animal skin, told the story of John the Baptist. The carvings stem from the Byzantine period and apparently were made by monks in the fourth or fifth century.

Well, if this isn't proof I don't know what is.

Quote:

The discovery, if confirmed, would be among the most significant breakthroughs for biblical scholars in memory.

At least they have forgotten the ossuary.

buybull · 08-16-2004, 11:43 AM

I'm convinced! I shall be converting forthwith!!!

I suppose the biblethumpers will up the volume for awhile....

MysteryProf · 08-16-2004, 12:58 PM

You beat me to posting it! (I just got an email about it from my mom.) Frankly, after looking at a few articles on it, I haven't found anything substantial. I mean, Byzantine-era illustrations? Come on!

Shameless Hussy · 08-16-2004, 01:11 PM

But... if the drawings are from the 4th or 5th century CE, would that not point toward followers of the John "heresy" using the cave for their rites, rather than a cave used by John Himself (presuming they do, in fact, depict JtheB)? And what era are the pottery shards from? And how do they know the water jugs were for baptism and not, say, drinking/bathing? This "discovery" seems a lot like the previous "discoveries" of John's bones...

GaryP · 08-16-2004, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shameless Hussy

But... if the drawings are from the 4th or 5th century CE, would that not point toward followers of the John "heresy" using the cave for their rites, rather than a cave used by John Himself (presuming they do, in fact, depict JtheB)? And what era are the pottery shards from? And how do they know the water jugs were for baptism and not, say, drinking/bathing? This "discovery" seems a lot like the previous "discoveries" of John's bones...

Sorry for my ignorance but could you please explain what the "John 'heresy'" is/was?

Shameless Hussy · 08-16-2004, 02:04 PM

One can hardly fault your "ignorance" of my loosey-goosey terminology.

I was referring to the "heresy" of those gnostics who followed JtheB as the fulfillment of prophesy, instead of Jesus, though I'm trying to recall if they thought JtheB fulfilled all messianic prophesy or not. Johannites? Johannists? I'll have to look it up and get back to you. (Mandaeans?)

TheFisherman · 08-16-2004, 02:08 PM

I saw the article(s) and though they were "one liners" and it was being blown out of context....

The fundy's trying to actually prove something from the bible....

08-16-2004, 10:01 AM	#1
GaryP Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Lancaster, OH Posts: 1,792	John the Baptist's cave found? http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...hn_the_baptist "John the Baptist, who was just a figure from the Gospels, now comes to life," said British archaeologist Shimon Gibson, who supervised the dig outside Jerusalem. However, others said there was no proof that John the Baptist ever set foot in the cave, about 2 1/2 miles from Ein Kerem, the preacher's hometown and now part of Jerusalem.

08-16-2004, 01:11 PM	#7
Shameless Hussy Regular Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: California Posts: 435	Re: Cave But... if the drawings are from the 4th or 5th century CE, would that not point toward followers of the John "heresy" using the cave for their rites, rather than a cave used by John Himself (presuming they do, in fact, depict JtheB)? And what era are the pottery shards from? And how do they know the water jugs were for baptism and not, say, drinking/bathing? This "discovery" seems a lot like the previous "discoveries" of John's bones...

08-16-2004, 02:04 PM	#9
Shameless Hussy Regular Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: California Posts: 435	Re: John's Cave One can hardly fault your "ignorance" of my loosey-goosey terminology. I was referring to the "heresy" of those gnostics who followed JtheB as the fulfillment of prophesy, instead of Jesus, though I'm trying to recall if they thought JtheB fulfilled all messianic prophesy or not. Johannites? Johannists? I'll have to look it up and get back to you. (Mandaeans?)

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08-16-2004, 10:17 AM	#2
Amaleq13 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Eagle River, Alaska Posts: 7,816	Unless they aren't describing some pretty important evidence, they seem to be speculating quite heavily. Where, in the Bible or Christian tradition, is John's hometown identified?

08-16-2004, 11:43 AM	#5
buybull Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Vermont Posts: 634	I'm convinced! I shall be converting forthwith!!! I suppose the biblethumpers will up the volume for awhile....

08-16-2004, 12:58 PM	#6
MysteryProf Regular Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Chicago Posts: 301	You beat me to posting it! (I just got an email about it from my mom.) Frankly, after looking at a few articles on it, I haven't found anything substantial. I mean, Byzantine-era illustrations? Come on!

08-16-2004, 02:08 PM	#10
TheFisherman Regular Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Chicago Area Posts: 213	I saw the article(s) and though they were "one liners" and it was being blown out of context.... The fundy's trying to actually prove something from the bible....

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