greyline

Well, I know the answer because I went to Jewish websites and heard it vehemently from the mouth of a Jew that they do not.

However, I recently had an online discussion with Christians who had no idea that Jews didn't believe in Original Sin - that is, sin inherited from Adam & Eve that damns all humans to hell by default.

My question is primarily for Christians: if the doctrine of Original Sin is so important for the eternal destination of our souls, how come Jews didn't know about it?

And how come Jesus didn't know about it? (Well, he was a Jew, after all.)

Chris Weimer

Paul was a Jew and he understood. But it isn't in mainstream Jewish dogma. In fact, most Jews believe that fulfilling the entire Torah is in our ability.

greyline

My impression is that Paul invented the whole "Jesus died for your sins" (sins being inherited sin) thing, along with the early Church. And this is the crux of Christianity... yet Jesus never mentioned it.

Ultimately my question concerns whether Christians today follow Paul's teachings or Jesus' teachings... and if Paul's, then why?

Chris Weimer

"Jesus" (the heavily edited founder who appears in the gospels) follows Paul to some degree. The gospels made the real Jesus into a dumby of Paul's.

greyline

Given that Paul's stuff was written before the Gospels, I'm interested in why the Gospels don't emphasize this "blood sacrifice to pay for inherited sin" aspect of Paul's message (not that Paul said much about it either) given that it's the Whole Point of Christianity today. My reading on the early Church leads me to believe that even Paul hadn't really figured this out and it was the 2nd century fathers who thought it up: original sin is the disease, we have the only cure.

Anat

Well, at the time the stories of Genesis were written Jews did not have very defined opinions regarding the afterlife, thus the whole issue of 'eternal destination of our souls' is an anachronism.

I am not aware of a Jewish source that puts much emphasis on hell at all. Some believe that everyone goes through a period of suffering as they adjust to the afterlife, but this is limited, and can be hurried along by achieving a high level of learning in life or by having others learn for one's sake after one's death. Some believe in hell as temporary torture, somewhat similar to the Catholic purgatory, limited to one year at the worst case.

What do Jews say happens when a person dies?

Also significant is: What is the Jewish view of Salvation, i.e., how a person from a given religion is ''saved''?
In short: Judaism doesn't focus on the afterlife. Jews must do good to the best of their ability because that is the right thing to do, regardless of potential reward (or punishment for wrong-doing). Judaism does not accept that God judges everyone on the same scale. God wants people to fully materialise their potential to do good. He considers one's innate ability, upbringing, specific situations.

(As Reb Zusya had said, “When I stand before the throne of justice, the Holy One will not ask me, 'Zusya, why were you not Moses, or Abraham; He will ask me Zusya, why were you not Zusya?”)

What must one do to lead "a good life" in Judaism?

Also: on human nature

Evil

Solo

Poppycock. Of course the Jews are intimately familiar with the idea of "original sin". It cannot be denied. But like every other major religion, Judaism has different schools of thought. They interpret the Fall of Man (Gen 2-3) differently. The Hasidic and other ultraconservative branches, have been as obssessed with original sin as the various puritanical movements in Christianity. On the opposite end, the liberal wing has seen in the separation of man from God, not as some catastrophy revisited on generations, but as the birth of conscience in man, the understanding of man's fallibility.

Jiri

Anat

Jiri, do you have evidence that any branch of Judaism believes humans are sinful from birth? Not that they have a tendency to sin, but that they are considered in need for any kind of atonement from birth?

Solo

Anat, man's sinful nature and the remedy for man's sinful nature are two different things. The first is laid out allegorically in Genesis 2-3. This is Torah and therefore common to all varities of Judaism.

As for the second, there is no "atonement from birth". Infant circumcision for males does not connote "remission of sin" as infant baptism does for Christians. Observances vary for adults but they commonly include Sabbath, food laws, participation in the religious life of the community, and prayer.
Ritual ablutions are also widely practiced by religious Jews..

Jiri

Solo

Jewish eschatology had only vague motions of the individual fate in afterlife. The overriding concern was restoration of Israel under Messiah of Davidic line at the end of time. At the restoriation, in classical Judaism the righteous would rise from the dead. However,through Babylon and contact with Persian dualism, the "sheol", which was previously a murky land of shadows for the dead, the view changes and the place acquires familiar properties of the later "hell" of the NT and Quran. (Isa 66:24). The view of the resurrection of the dead also changes: In Daniel (12:2) all men rise in the resurrection of the dead. The wicked will then live to everlasting shame.

So, the concept of eternal punishment as the effect of of God's judgment was known to Judaism before the Apocalyptics entered the scene.

Jiri