mountainman

Has anyone read ...
The conflict between paganism and Christianity in the fourth century; Essays (or via: amazon.co.uk) (Oxford-Warburg studies) (Unknown Binding)
by Arnaldo Momigliano?

No reviews are available. I am checking the library.

Here is an intro to the author by way of an extract of an
article by Donald Kagan, The New Criterion Vol. 10, No. 7, March 1992
http://www.newcriterion.com/archive/10/mar92/kagan.htm
entitled
Arnaldo Momigliano and the human sources of history

Momigliano makes it clear that the Greek tradition is the inspiring source of modern historical writing. At its heart is the critical attitude that distinguished “between facts and fancies.” This is the most important contribution, and “no historiography earlier than the Greek or independent of it developed critical methods, and we have inherited the Greek methods.” For Momigliano, as for most historians, this was the essential and necessary starting point for anything properly called the writing of history. In our own day we see the very distinction between “facts and fancies” undermined by literary critics and even professional historians. This kind of skepticism, of course, is nothing new. As part of the political and religious controversies of the seventeenth century skeptical critics called Pyrrhonists (named after Pyrrho, the ancient Greek father of skepticism) declared all historical writings to be mere partisan tracts. Like their modern descendants, they thereby freed themselves to treat the past in any way they liked, or to ignore it altogether. Momigliano saw the Pyrrhonist movement as having “an adverse effect” on historical studies. For all his extraordinary breadth and tolerance for new approaches, he would also have judged the modern Pyrrhonists as terribly retrogressive.

Momigliano attributes the invention of Greek, and therefore of modern, historiography to the sixth century B.C. and emphasizes two developments. At some point between Hesiod (c. 700 B.C.) and Hecataeus of Miletus (c. 500 B.C.) “a revolution happened.” The political part of that revolution was the discovery of law and its importance in distinguishing between different societies. Unlike the Hebrew law, which was “beyond history,” Greek law, in spite of early claims for its divine origin, emerged from human history.

It is no chance that historiography developed in the fifth century in the full maturity of Ionian and Attic democracy. The victory of democracy was the victory for social mobility and reform: it was the victory for free and rational choice. It sharpened the interest in political theories and constitutional changes, it invited comparison between Greek and non-Greek institutions and between the various types of Greek institutions.
The second part of the revolution was philosophical, arising from contact with other peoples and an intensive questioning of received traditions and opinions. This did not, however, lead to empty relativism or to skepticism, but to a “search for new principles of explanation, the rise of doubt as an intellectual stimulus to new discoveries.” Hecataeus, therefore, began his Genealogies with a challenge to tradition: “I Hecataeus will say what I think to be the truth; the stories of the Greeks are many and ridiculous.” That did not lead him either to make up whatever story he liked or to despair of finding the truth. It led him to questioning and research and the reasoned quest for accurate knowledge and understanding—that is, toward history.

It is not Hecataeus, however, whom we call the father of history but Herodotus, and Momigliano explains why. Hecataeus appears to have confined himself to the comparison and reasoned criticism of what was thought to be known. In his effort to preserve valuable memories of great deeds of the past, Herodotus undertook inquiries, even traveling to foreign countries to gather new evidence. “The task of preserving traditions implied the aim of discovering new facts. Both together entailed a new methodical approach in which the reliability of evidence mattered more than rational evaluation of probabilities.” For all that, Herodotus did not enjoy a reputation for accuracy, truthfulness, and objectivity among ancient writers. They pointed to factual inaccuracies, many called him a liar outright, and Plutarch wrote an essay on his “malignity,” charging him with a lack of patriotism and a prejudice in favor of Athens.

The “Father of History,” in fact, with his meandering style full of discursive side trips into the customs and habits of various peoples, his serious consideration of the causal role of the gods in human affairs, did not become the model for what was thought to be the best historical writing in the ancient world. Polybius and the Roman’s Sallust, Livy, Tacitus, and Ammianus Marcellinus were the great historical writers of antiquity, and they wrote chiefly about their own times, their own nations, and, especially, about war and politics. [2] As a model Herodotus was eclipsed. The responsibility for this Momigliano places squarely on the shoulders of Thucydides, who “put himself between Herodotus and his readers.” Without directly naming the historian of the Persian Wars, Thucydides corrected some of his factual errors, dismissing him as one who wrote “a prize-essay to be heard for the moment,” compared to his own more serious effort, which was meant to be a “possession for all time.” Where Herodotus delved deeply into the distant past, painted on a broad canvas the picture of many nations and peoples, and was interested in their religious, social, and cultural practices, Thucydides focused his powerful critical eye on the present and on the recent past; he fixed his gaze intently on the Greeks, and especially on his own Athenians; finally he concentrated the reader’s attention on the war, its diplomacy and its politics. For him, as Lord Acton put it, “History is past politics.”

The quotes from Momigliano are from his work
"The Classical Foundations of Modern Historiography".

I am interested to read what the author writes concerning
The conflict between paganism and Christianity in the fourth century
and will eventually obtain the book. In the interim, are there any here
who have read this book, and who are prepared to summarise or
review it?


Best wishes,



Pete Brown
Authors of Antiquity
http://www.mountainman.com.au/essenes/article_029.htm

mountainman

The conflict between paganism and Christianity in the fourth century; Essays (or via: amazon.co.uk) (Oxford-Warburg studies) (Unknown Binding)
by Arnaldo Momigliano?


I am still searching for this earnestly without success.
It appears to be listed as "printable on demand".

Has anyone seen a spare copy of this anywhere?
Has anyone got a spare copy of this and is willing
to send it by post (on a temporary basis only) to
rural Australia? (will be looked after).

The more I gather up what scraps of Momigliano
that there presently exist on the net the more I
am convinced he has done some reading, and
some reflection thereupon.

Thanks in advance for any information about the
temporary securement of this text. It has been
evading me for many moons.



Pete Brown

mountainman

Perhaps I have been avoiding the US$100+ cost .
Hey Toto, how much do II get out of this hundred as a matter
of interest if I was lucky enough for "Moontree" to find their
advertised "ONE COPY"?

Best wishes

Malachi151

Pete. I would like to get a look at this book as well. I'm am currently working on something that involves this subject and am looking for all the resources I can find. If you find out something on this, please let me know.

Toto

II would get a small amount of that, since it is not directly from Amazon.

You might try a library:

http://www.worldcatlibraries.org/wcp...d329c7bac.html

Roger Pearse

Go into your local library and ask about an "inter library loan" or ILL. The process should locate the volume in a library willing to lend for you. All libraries in the UK and USA are capable of doing this, although you may need to get an informed staff member. But... it will cost you money ($15?).

When I get the book, if it's really good and very expensive I just photocopy the whole thing. (Most books are not that good). Stand at a photocopier in Staples or somewhere with cheap self-service copying and do it -- it will take 1-2 hours.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

Vorkosigan

Roger:

I photograph it with my digital camera, a lot faster and cheaper. Then, if I want to print it out, I can hook it up to a professional copier and get it done lickety split. And I can carry the images around in any portable storage device, even my camera, if I need to review them. I also did that because in Taiwan only one uni has any serious bible journals, so I've photographed many years of them.

Michael

mountainman

Thanks for this BTW Roger.

The problem seems to have been an earlier visit to the library
where I was advised the NSW State (of Australia) system did
not have any of Momigliano's works.

Another separate contact with them today has produced unexpected
results with this book of Momigliano's, in the next little while.



Pete