gracebkr

Right, his grave was assigned with the wicked, BUT Joseph of Arimithea, a rich man laid Jesus in his tomb. So, that would mean, Joseph was with Him in death, even though Jesus was tried and killed as a criminal.

gracebkr

James A Brown, I have not forgotten your post. I have to dissect it though. I don't want you to think I am dismissing all that work. I am taking my time so, please be patient, I might not be able to answer that post right away, my kids are a little bothersome. I know I am going to have to give my undivided attention.

RED DAVE

1) I love it when Christians bullshit about the resurrection and can't figure why Jews who were there at the time didn't dig it. Because it didn't happen.

2) And, by the way, why do Christians always think they know the so-called Old Testament better than Jews and think they can reinterpret someone else's religion to fit their's?

3) Where does all this suffering servant shit about JC come from? He lives 32 good years, suffers for a few hours and then allegedly frees mankind from sin, defeats the devil becomes ruler of the universe. Nice work if you can get it.

RED DAVE

douglas

I have no clue what actually happened, or if it happened at all, but the Gospels make it clear that the Jewish leadership conspired to have Jesus crucified. It seems logical, given the historical context, that the Roman's would have willingly gone along with this plot.

I don't agree. It does not follow that Pilate would have agreed to this. In fact, given what we know about crucifixion it seems highly unlikely that Pilate would have allowed this. Doing so would have been viewed as a sign of weakness. If he did allow this, Pilate would have done so in an attempt to appease the Jewish leadership.

"Innocence" is a value judgement, but the Romans showed little mercy to non-roman citizens who they perceived as enemies. There is no doubt in my mind that the Gospel writers were bending over backwards not to piss off the Romans. If they would have said "The Romans killed Jesus" that would have just pissed off the Romans.

Cege

grace, you first posted:
Not right. The scripture you provided doesn't state that Jesus' body would be "laid in a rich man's tomb".

You wrote that there were plural prophecies that Jesus' body would be laid in a rich man's tomb. Do you know of another verse other than Isaiah 53:9?

gracebkr

Jews did not kill Jesus, Romans did. They killed a lot of Jews who started movements to end the movements that would have resulted in possible revolts against them.

The writers of the gospels, were Jews who founded Christianity. So they knew the Old Testament.

The wording of Isaiah 53, is what happened to Jesus. Being crucified is not easy and it was intended to cause great suffering on the individual. That's why they did it.

gracebkr

Isaiah had many prophesies, that's where s* comes in. I don't think Jews, but could be totally wrong, think that these are not prophesies, I think they think Jesus was not the one the prophesies were referencing. They are still waiting for these prophesies to happen.

The prophesy says the Messiah would be laid with the rich, Jesus was laid in a rich man's tomb. The prophesy was right then.

Cege

So you know of no other mention that could be possibly be interpreted as a prophecy that the Messiah would be laid with the rich? I know of none.

While verse 9 is often interpreted by Christians as a prophecy that the Jewish Messiah would be laid in a rich man's grave, that just isn't what the verse says, either in or out of context.

The prophecy, if that's what it is, of Isaiah 53 doesn't mention "messiah", either.

RED DAVE

From RED DAVE:
From gracebkr:
You have just ducked the point I made. I have asserted that Jews ignored the resurrection because it didn't happen. It didn't raise a stir: no front page article in the Jerusalem Daily Parchment. No interviews of the witnesses by Larry King, Barbara Walters, Jon Stuart (all Jews).

Because it never happened.

From RED DAVE:
From gracebkr:
Right! Someone should have reminded Matthew that there's a difference between a young woman and a virgin. You could get in a lot of trouble back then about that sort of thing.

From RED DAVE:
From gracebkr:
Boy, what nonsense. Did you read my post?

If I knew for a certainty that after a few hours of agony the world would be freed from the yoke of satan, I'd go to heaven and live in bliss forever and control everything, I'd drive the nails in with my teeth!

Remember, Christians, as the majority religion of the West, go around under the delusion that your religion is respected by people of other religions. We respect you as people, but your religion, for us, is funnier than shit!

I mean god came down to earth as a dude and then he died! And once a week or so you eat his body and drink his blood, etc. And one of the holiest things you can do for god is spend your life not screwing!

Boy, who made your religion up? Robin Williams?

RED DAVE

Tears In The Rain

Why would it be easy to squash the empty tomb story decades later?