Freethought & Rationalism Archive

gnosis92 · 07-11-2007, 07:11 AM

normal English:

I used to watch the John Ankerberg show, and he has a presence on the net. He is talking about Harry Potter as there is a movie coming out.

One obvious question is how is it a mere mortal, Rawlings, could write books that millions WANT to read, that an omnipotent God could not achieve even among his own devoted followers?

He's written a dozen articles, but here
http://www.ankerberg.com/hp-articles/hp-book4.htm

he summarizes in one paragraph

"In this book we find Harry: practicing divination/sorcery (p. 583); interpreting omens (p. 577); engaging in witchcraft (p. 494); casting spells (p. 347), acting as a medium (pp. 15-16); and " (p. 461). All of these are practices God has condemned. Please see our companion article, God’s Warning about Witchcraft: Definition of Terms from Deuteronomy 18."

http://www.ankerberg.com/hp-articles/hp-deut18.htm

The irony is that the Bible itself has "interpreting omens" i.e Daniel and Joseph, Jesus "cast spells". Any good examples of the Bible itself showing stories of "engaging in witchcraft "
"acting as a medium " "acting as a medium "

Of course when Jesus or Moses "Cast spells" they are miracles from God. Why Harry Potter's spells can't be described as miracles from God is beyond me.

BioBeing · 07-11-2007, 07:22 AM

I'm pretty sure all that stuff went on in the Narnia series too, which Christians seem to love.

Your title says "... and how you can fight back". Did you have any ideas on this, other than just pointing at these people and having a good, hearty laugh?

gstafleu · 07-11-2007, 08:39 AM

The reaction of (some) Christians to Harry Potter is quite interesting. It shows they cannot distinguish between fact and fiction, between (physical) reality and myth. That, of course, is what gave rise to the literalist interpretation of the gospels in the first place. The Christians are in this case not even fighting windmills, they are fighting pictures of windmills. Perhaps they have to do this, because allowing that people could be interested in a mythical hero might point up that maybe good old JC is mythical as well.

Gerard Stafleu

RED DAVE · 07-11-2007, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gstafleu

The reaction of (some) Christians to Harry Potter is quite interesting. It shows they cannot distinguish between fact and fiction, between (physical) reality and myth. That, of course, is what gave rise to the literalist interpretation of the gospels in the first place. The Christians are in this case not even fighting windmills, they are fighting pictures of windmills. Perhaps they have to do this, because allowing that people could be interested in a mythical hero might point up that maybe good old JC is mythical as well.

Excellent.

Or, as Lewis Black puts it:

Quote:

There are people, who believe, that dinosaurs and men, lived together. That they roamed the earth at the same time. There are museums that children go to, in which they build dioramas, to show them this. And what this is, purely and simply, is a clinical, psychotic reaction. They are crazy. They are stone, cold, fuck, nuts. I can’t be kind about this. Because these people are watching the Flintstones as if it were a documentary.

http://biblioblography.blogspot.com/.../Lewis%20Black

RED DAVE

Ben C Smith · 07-11-2007, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gstafleu

Perhaps they have to do this, because allowing that people could be interested in a mythical hero might point up that maybe good old JC is mythical as well.

I think this is a misinterpretation of mainstream Christianity of almost any stripe. Speaking as one who has been personally involved to some extent with many different Christian denominations, independent churches, and movements, I can testify that the vast majority of Christians do not do anything because doing the opposite might imply that Jesus did not exist. Many of them are not even aware that viewpoint exists, and those that do usually consider it on the lunatic fringe, not worth even a moment of time.

Ben.

Constant Mews · 07-11-2007, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben C Smith

Quote:

Originally Posted by gstafleu

Perhaps they have to do this, because allowing that people could be interested in a mythical hero might point up that maybe good old JC is mythical as well.

I think this is a misinterpretation of mainstream Christianity of almost any stripe. Speaking as one who has been personally involved to some extent with many different Christian denominations, independent churches, and movements, I can testify that the vast majority of Christians do not do anything because doing the opposite might imply that Jesus did not exist. Many of them are not even aware that viewpoint exists, and those that do usually consider it on the lunatic fringe, not worth even a moment of time.

Ben.

I am afraid I must agree with this. It explains why so often theists claim that 'atheism' is a religious position: because they cannot even conceive of NOT having a religious position. It is the basis of the Christian rejection of atheists; a generally puzzled feeling that they are trying to explain how pretty the sky is when the atheist simply denies that there is a sky.

Boro Nut · 07-11-2007, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Constant Mews

It is the basis of the Christian rejection of atheists; a generally puzzled feeling that they are trying to explain how pretty the sky is when the atheist simply denies that there is a sky.

Yeah that sounds pretty familiar, especially the complete misstatement of facts. In truth it's a bit more like:-

Oh sweet baby Jesus what a lovely colour you have painted the firmament today.
Actually it's the sky darling. There's no firmament up there sweetheart. And it's just blue light being scattered by the atmosphere by the way, not paint.
Burn in hell you lying sperm of Satan.
Er.... aren't you supposed to forgive me?
Get off my planet or die : Leviticus 16:24 (or something).

Boro Nut

Cheerful Charlie · 07-11-2007, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gnosis92

normal English:

I used to watch the John Ankerberg show, and he has a presence on the net. He is talking about Harry Potter as there is a movie coming out.

One obvious question is how is it a mere mortal, Rawlings, could write books that millions WANT to read, that an omnipotent God could not achieve even among his own devoted followers?

He's written a dozen articles, but here
http://www.ankerberg.com/hp-articles/hp-book4.htm

I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: "O Lord make my enemies ridiculous." And God granted it.
Voltaire

CC

Rigel · 07-12-2007, 07:18 AM

Is the opposition to Harry Potter mostly limited to protestant fundy nuts? The town where I live has a huge catholic population and they all seem to love Harry. Maybe they are more used to the idea of magic, given what they think is going on every time they eat stale wafers and grape juice at church...

gstafleu · 07-12-2007, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben C Smith

Quote:

Originally Posted by gstafleu

Perhaps they have to do this, because allowing that people could be interested in a mythical hero might point up that maybe good old JC is mythical as well.

I think this is a misinterpretation of mainstream Christianity of almost any stripe. Speaking as one who has been personally involved to some extent with many different Christian denominations, independent churches, and movements, I can testify that the vast majority of Christians do not do anything because doing the opposite might imply that Jesus did not exist. Many of them are not even aware that viewpoint exists, and those that do usually consider it on the lunatic fringe, not worth even a moment of time.

You'll have noticed I said "perhaps"

. The reason I hold this as a possibility is the little I know about the psychological background of the belief mechanism, mainly as posited in The Corruption of Reality by John F. Schumaker. In this view, while a believer consciously does not (in fact: cannot) hold a view that goes against his or her belief, unconsciously the believer can, and often does. (BTW, the woolly term "(un)conscious" is defined in much more detail in the book than supplied by e.g. the usual pop-psychology). This view may (or may not) correspond to the views from evolutionary psychology. Schumaker makes, imho, a good argument, but it is in all likelihood too early to come to any firm conclusions. Still, it supplies a possible answer as to why some Christians feel compelled to fight pictures of windmills. Perhaps your experience suggest different motivations?

Gerard Stafleu

07-11-2007, 07:11 AM	#1
gnosis92 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: usa Posts: 3,103	John Ankerberg says Bible comdemns Harry Potter, and how you can fight back. normal English: I used to watch the John Ankerberg show, and he has a presence on the net. He is talking about Harry Potter as there is a movie coming out. One obvious question is how is it a mere mortal, Rawlings, could write books that millions WANT to read, that an omnipotent God could not achieve even among his own devoted followers? He's written a dozen articles, but here http://www.ankerberg.com/hp-articles/hp-book4.htm he summarizes in one paragraph "In this book we find Harry: practicing divination/sorcery (p. 583); interpreting omens (p. 577); engaging in witchcraft (p. 494); casting spells (p. 347), acting as a medium (pp. 15-16); and " (p. 461). All of these are practices God has condemned. Please see our companion article, God’s Warning about Witchcraft: Definition of Terms from Deuteronomy 18." http://www.ankerberg.com/hp-articles/hp-deut18.htm The irony is that the Bible itself has "interpreting omens" i.e Daniel and Joseph, Jesus "cast spells". Any good examples of the Bible itself showing stories of "engaging in witchcraft " "acting as a medium " "acting as a medium " Of course when Jesus or Moses "Cast spells" they are miracles from God. Why Harry Potter's spells can't be described as miracles from God is beyond me.

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07-11-2007, 07:22 AM	#2
BioBeing Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 6,004	I'm pretty sure all that stuff went on in the Narnia series too, which Christians seem to love. Your title says "... and how you can fight back". Did you have any ideas on this, other than just pointing at these people and having a good, hearty laugh?

07-11-2007, 08:39 AM	#3
gstafleu Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: London, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,719	The reaction of (some) Christians to Harry Potter is quite interesting. It shows they cannot distinguish between fact and fiction, between (physical) reality and myth. That, of course, is what gave rise to the literalist interpretation of the gospels in the first place. The Christians are in this case not even fighting windmills, they are fighting pictures of windmills. Perhaps they have to do this, because allowing that people could be interested in a mythical hero might point up that maybe good old JC is mythical as well. Gerard Stafleu

07-12-2007, 07:18 AM	#9
Rigel Regular Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: United States Posts: 317	Is the opposition to Harry Potter mostly limited to protestant fundy nuts? The town where I live has a huge catholic population and they all seem to love Harry. Maybe they are more used to the idea of magic, given what they think is going on every time they eat stale wafers and grape juice at church...

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