sweetpea7

The translation does provide a footnote with the literal phrase "son of man". I don't think the text is clear in many places that Jesus is talking about himself. It seems to me that sometimes Jesus could be referring to the Son of Man from the book of Daniel, while other times it appears that he is referencing himself. I agree with the translators on this one.

PhilosopherJay

Hi Sweetpea,

Some people might think they have taken too many liberties; however, I really like this common language translation approach. It makes Jesus more believable for me. Take this passage from Matthew 26:

It really makes Jesus more natural and real. And this exchange between Mary and the Angel has never sounded better:

If this doesn't grab the attention of the kids and get them back in Church, nothing will.

Warmly,

Philosopher Jay

Sheshbazzar

The replacement term "human" IS NOT a 'translation' of the Scriptural phrase "Son of Man". What it is is a (faulty-dumbed down) -theological interpretation- of the phrase.

It dosen't matter how many dozens, or even hundreds of denominations are willing to accede to it, IT WILL NEVER BE a 'translation' but will always be nothing more than an interpretation, an error, an imposition, and an offence against the integrity of content of the original texts.

They do not recognise nor comprehend the significance of maintaining this detail now, how much less so after they accomplish burying it under their theological interpretation?
They, under the guise of 'translation' <sic>, corrupt the texts and rob all people who listen to, or follow them.

Damned lowlife theologians, if there be a Hell, or Gehenna of fire, they will be the coals at the very bottom of that Pit.

avi

Here is the Latin Vulgate translation of the Hebrew text for Ezekiel 2:1

Here is the translation which I find to be most literal:

Point is this: "Son of man", is not synonymous with "human being". "Son of" anything, indicates progeny, offspring.

If we examine an earlier passage in Ezekiel: 1:3, we can observe a similar attempt to elevate the stature of JC, referred to as "lord" by the Christians, by lowering the status of Yahweh, to the same rank, i.e. lord.

So, there has been a consistent pattern, since at least the time when LXX was doctored by the Christians, post Nicea, to try to raise JC to the same status as his "father".

By changing "son of man", to "human being", one is able to explain that JC only appeared human, but was actually divine. He was born of a woman, but son of Yahweh, not son of man. The English had to be changed, to be consistent with Christian trinitarian dogma...

avi

Iskander

Thank you for posting this.
I like what I have read in the available pdfs, which I downloaded from the url in your post

sweetpea7

I'm no Bible Scholar, but Dale Martin, Professor of Religious Studies at Yale, agrees that human being is what the phrase 'Son of Man' means. At least, that is what he says in his lectures in the free online open yale courses. And he is the furthest thing from a fundamentalist. I can post a link if necessary.

Here is a quote of the footnote from Matthew 8:20 NRSV "Son of Man, a characteristic self-identification of Jesus. The title is ambiguous, and can be understood either as "human being" (cf. Ps 8.4, Ezek 2.1), i.e., as a circumlocution for "I", or as a reference to the apocalyptic figure of Daniel 7.13-14."

Just for added fun:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son_of_man


This just does not make logical sense. If one were trying to emphasize Jesus being God in the flesh, the last word one would want to choose is "human". The translation does not say "appeared human." Son of Man is an unclear phrase that churches have taught for years and never clarified. The fundie church I was raised in never explained it, and you can be sure they'd have a tantrum over Jesus being referred to as human, not proudly saying how that reinforces the doctrine of the trinity!

Toto

:facepalm:

No, that's

icardfacepalm:

Why do you not think that when Christians refer to Jesus as "kyrios" that they are referring to him as a god?

No need to answer and dig yourself further into this hole.

Iskander

Human is a as good as mortal, or son of Adam or ...


Ezekiel 2:1 is translated in the Jewish Study Bible as:
And He said to me,” O mortal stand up on your feet that I may speak to you”
The notes explaining the translation say “Son of Adam” or “human” or mortal.



Ezekiel 2:1 is translated in the new Oxford annotated bible as;
He said to me: O mortal, stand up on your feet, and I will speak with you.
The notes explaining the translation say: Or son of man, Heb ben adam

hjalti

What I would love to see is a list of some good passages that one could check in new translations and see if they are more interested in selling bibles than translating honestly, and maybe followed with an explanation of why the translators might not want to translate it correctly. Something like this:

1. Deu 32:9 according to the number of....
Good: sons of El (or something similar).
Bad: sons of Israel (or something similar)

2. ???

Sheshbazzar

You may bring out as many 'Christian' "versions" or 'translations' <sic> as you like.
My reading is from the Hebrew, I understand its words and their usages, I do not depend upon these 'Christian' garbage interpretations for understanding of any Hebrew or Greek texts.

My position is; (and I am rephrasing this to put it more gently) These ancient texts belong to and are the heritage and the public property of ALL of mankind,
The Hebrews first, and ALL of mankind through them. Every word, every -letter- is precious, to be preserved and to be defended.
(Common Hebrew position)

'Christians' do not have, nor hold any exclusive rights to the being accounted as the authoritative 'translators' of the ancient biblical texts.
Nor do 'Christian's' or 'Christian' theologians have, nor hold any exclusive rights to any claim to be the official interpreters of, or claims as to the intent of, or the application of anything, any word or phrase contained in any of these ancient writings.
Rather obviously, all of the so called OT writings far predated the both religion and the twisted theological claims of 'Christianity'.
From its beginning 'Christianity' has through 'translation' deliberately distorted and misrepresented the OT (TaNaKa texts) to validate their imaginatively contrived theological claims.
In regard of the so-called 'New Testement' writings, the 'Christian' theology and religion are simply thieves.
The NT Messianic Jewish writings were not composed by 'Christians', and should not be subjected to any latter contrived 'Christian' doctrines or dogmas.

Most of the Messianic believers living in the first century, in their situ, lived out their entire lives without even so much as hearing of the word/name 'Christian', much less identifying themselves by this Johnny-come-lately imposed foreign political appellation. (Acts 11:26)
My position is quite simple. Christians as a group, are liars, thieves, extortioners, and murderers, as they have proven to be from their beginnings. No amounts of frosting will ever serve to conceal their evil and poisonous cake.
ALL of them together, with out exception, and regardless of what they may call themselves, or their denominations, are ALL the progeny of either the whoring 'Mother church' or her whore daughters. (Rev 17:5)
They screwed with the texts in the beginning, and they are still attempting to screw with and manipulate the texts to further their bogus theological claims.

Some, knowing no better, swallow their devious tripe, and support and further their claims and holds upon men's minds.
But in the end, the subterfuge will be found out. 'Christianity' will be discredited and put to open public shame, and every person willingly associated with it will be held in permanent contempt by future generations.
The ancient cry is "Come OUT of her..." (Rev 18:4)
Every wise bird, that has sight, will see, and that has hearing will hear, and will fly from the snare.
Every honest person will consider, and save themselves from out of the laid trap.
Outside there is freedom and there is no condemnation. Inside is death with everlasting shame.
Anything is better than being named a 'Christian', or receiving its T mark.
Fly, fly away, and escape little birds.