epoqks

i've heard that jehovahs witness use 1 peter 3:18 as justification for a non-physical resurrection of jesus. is there any room in the greek for a translation of this verse supporting such a view or is this an obvious fudging by watchtower types?

cheers,

jonathan

Legion

I'll try to remember to take a look at this after I get home and come back to this thread, but I suspect that basing that belief on this passage is going to be pretty shaky. Are you sure they don't have other reasons for why they think that?

CX

Hmmm...let's see. According to NA27 the pertinent passage is:

<QANATWQEIS> <MEN> <SARKI> <ZWOPOIHQEIS> <DE> <PNEUMATI>

The most wooden and literal translation would be:

"<Having been killed> <indeed> [in] <flesh> <but> <having been made alive> [in] <spirit>"

I suppose the case could be made that this suggests a spiritual rather than a physical resurrection (in fact I'm hard pressed, given the wording, to suggest it means a physicial resurrection). There is considerable inconsistency throughout the NT with respect to the nature of Jesus' resurrection. If anything it is evangelicals who "fudge" the text to promote a certain view. Consider the NIV version:

"He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit".

The addition of the word "by" is unwarranted but is obviously intended to convey a certain theological view namely that of a physical resurrection (i.e. the body was killed but then revivified by the spirit)

Toto

In his recent debate, Richard Carrier referred to an article he will be publishing next year on the spiritual / physical resurrection question. He believes (after extensive historical research) that the early Christians believed only in a spiritual resurrection, as shown in various parts of Paul's letters.

CX

It's worth noting that Byzantine manuscripts (and consequently translations based upon them like KJV) add the definite article before SARKI and PNEUMATI though this doesn't change the channel of action in the phrase TW PNEUMATI ("the spirit") to include "by". One would expect to see the word DIA (by, through) before PNEUMATI if the NIV reading were intended.

CX

I'll be interested to read it. I think a strong case can be and is made for early Xian belief in a spiritual resurrection which would coincide with a more plausible set of events (wherein the "resurrected" jesus was revealed to early followers in visions and dreams) after Jesus' execution.

CX

This raises another interesting point oft rejected by Xians that "minor" translational variations can have a dramatic impact on fundamental doctrines of Xian belief. The nature of Jesus' "resurrection", based on the historical evidence, was highly controversial among the earliest Xians. This is demonstrated very clearly in the supression of heresies like the gnostics and the ebionites.

Magdlyn

Yes, several pseuo-Paulines and pastorals make a desparate case that the kingdom and resurrection of people is to happen at the end of the world, when the physical earth and universe is destroyed. They seem to be trying to "correct" Paul, when he said, die to the flesh (thru baptism or some other kind of secret initiation he dared not write about), as Christ did. Be reborn to your spiritual nature, now, and experience unity with the One (and with other initiates, often translated "mature"). That is the kingdom on earth. Christ, an indwelling spirit, in you.