stephan huller

I just noticed that a number of manuscripts of the Midrash Tanhuma reference the author as "R. Tanhuma bar Abba said ..." The figure of Abba or Baba exist from this date (the Samaritan Baba Rabba immediately comes to mind). But 'bar Abba' here clearly must be a short form of Abraham or a proper name rather than a title.

Duvduv

There were Talmudic rabbis with the name of Abba such as Abba Arikha or son of Abba (Bar-Abba). Avraham is a different name, meaning Father of Many.

stephan huller

Obviously you are not Jewish because anyone Jewish has an Uncle Avi (think Abby Hoffmann) or knows that Abraham is often shortened. Another short form in antiquity was Abba. This is well established. The question is whether it dates back to the time of the gospel or how far it goes back. My point here is that the Abba in Tanhuma bar Abba cannot be a title (= 'the Father'). It has to be a variant of a proper name i.e. Abraham. Similarly Mana or Mani is an established form of Menachem.

Duvduv

I know at least 3 Abbas and they do not have the name Avraham connected with them. Ever heard of Abba Hillel Silver? Sometimes the name goes with the name Avraham as a middle name, such as Avraham Abba.

Furthermore, if you want to go on with this connection, you might as well dig up a Rabbi Yitzy or a Rabbi Yanky as well.

stephan huller

A good reason why actually reading material assists in learning:

As I have said many times before, learn to ask questions and then shut your mouth and listen to what people of greater knowledge than you have to say, in this case a Google search ...

Duvduv

So one case and he changed his name from Abraham Silver to Abba Hillel Silver. It doesn't all stand on him!
Abba Eban was Aubrey but not Avraham. He was originally Abba Solomon Meir.

stephan huller

I can't believe we are still arguing about this. Another important trait to help you become wise. Admit you're wrong from time to time. No greater impediment to knowledge than continue to argue points when they have been disproved. You cited Abba Silver, not me.

Vorkosigan

Stephen, the point? that barabbas in the crucifixion is really "son of abraham"?

Duvduv

Yes, the name change involved Abraham in that case.

stephan huller

No idea what the point is. When I was working on my senseless book I read one Markan expert float the idea that Abba was a shortform of Abraham. I just couldn't find an early example. A proselyte is identified the same way. The question of who is the true son of Abraham is a central theme