Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Thomas II · 10-11-2005, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonesg

American psychologist William James wrote in his book 'Varieties of Spiritual Awakening,

"most spiritual awakenings are of the educational variety"

Chemical induced is just high and from the high comes the down or fall.
A natural, from God, spiritual high doesn't dissipate, it keeps growing because the source is infinite as long as we give it away as freely as it is given. There is no God pill. Reliance on substance is abuse of sorts and usually leads to addiction.

One of the dangers of XTC is it leaves users listless, without emotion, spiritually dead. They were trying to get God from a substance.

http://www.olmsteadcommunity.org/Ins...20Ringwald.pdf

Jones,

I don't now what you call this "spiritual high"...It does sound a bit like "wishful thinking" and "mood making" but I don't know...
I have never done XTC so I have no point of reference.
But I do agree with what you said that it is like "trying to get God from a substance"... and that is EXACTLY MY POINT!! :jump:
My question was: "To what extent were these people from the Bible taking these substances and having all these visions and what not of some "god" talking to them,and coming up with all kinds of "god told me this" and "god told me that" thinking that it was AN ACTUAL GOD when in fact it was a product of the taking of the susbstance?
Even, to what extent was this "Tree of Knowledge" from the Genesis one of these plants that would open up the mind of these people, maybe even affecting them genetically? (Did you see the links I posted? Did you visit them?)
Do you see what I am saying?

Thomas II · 10-11-2005, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainZen

Interesting are the books by Carlos Castaneda, the Teachings of Don Juan.
Drugs are made from plants that are available to man. Why should they not be used to find the maximum of possible experiences of the mind/brain? We seem to use only a tiny portion of all the brain cells to get by in daily life.
LSD and Yopo, DMT and Peyote are wonderful ways to explore the amazing powers of creativity.

Well, Peyote has a cultural context, and maybe in that context following a certain ritual, it works for the indians but I don't think it is exactly the same for westerners because we don't belong to that culture. It might only work it you would immerse yourself in that culture and to a certain extent become an integral part of it,sort of like being adopted by it...
Like David, I was also reading Castaneda in the early 70s, and only his first few books because at some point it just became boring and repetitive, but "Journey to Ixtlan,a Yaki way of knowledge" was interesting, though it never made me want to take Peyote. I was meditating then big time so I had my mind busy with that... :rolling:

ComestibleVenom · 10-24-2005, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas II

I don't now what you call this "spiritual high"...It does sound a bit like "wishful thinking" and "mood making" but I don't know...

Closer to 'mastery of affect'. What was it that Nietzsche said, great men are marked not by the intensity of their elevated feeling, but by the duration of elevated feeling.

Thomas II · 10-24-2005, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ComestibleVenom

Closer to 'mastery of affect'. What was it that Nietzsche said, great men are marked not by the intensity of their elevated feeling, but by the duration of elevated feeling.

I agree.
The whole process has a wave pattern. There are ups and downs. The issue is in what direction is the chart going, upward or downward...Duration relates to that. :wave:

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