Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Thomas II · 10-08-2005, 09:50 AM

This is an aspect of the religious experience that we don't talk too much about, and we should...All these imaginary beliefs of "gods" talking to people and visions of angels,etc, have to have been drug induced or at least produced during an altered state of consciousness.
How does this fact affects the validity of the visions, their message,and their origin?

http://people.etnoteam.it/maiocchi/fabbro.htm

http://www.bluehoney.org/Mankind4.htm

http://www.nick2211.yage.net/indoles.htm

http://www.dhushara.com/book/twelve/tw2.htm

http://www.serendipity.li/dmt/dmt_bibl.html

http://www.earlham.edu/~seidti/iam/interp_mss.html

Clivedurdle · 10-08-2005, 10:57 AM

Entheogenics

Sacred places and elecro magnetism

It's not only drugs, but probably electro magnetism and anything else that can alter minds!

And if its all in the mind, the value is related to if it enables works of art or other insights - or not.

Thomas II · 10-08-2005, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

Entheogenics

Sacred places and elecro magnetism

It's not only drugs, but probably electro magnetism and anything else that can alter minds!

And if its all in the mind, the value is related to if it enables works of art or other insights - or not.

Art is just one small aspect. The "other insights" aspect is the one that calls my attention since they form the basis of religions

Amaleq13 · 10-08-2005, 01:55 PM

This seems more GRD than BC&H. swoosh.

Thomas II · 10-09-2005, 06:53 AM

http://iamshaman.com/amanita/hiddensymbols.htm

My conclusion is that the people who started the religion, Moses being one of them, had this special "connection" with "god" in the way of hallucinations created by the ingestion of a psychotropic plant...
This has been done in just about ALL the cultures around the world.
In fact, the story of Adam and Eve probably describes such a plant as the Tree of Knowledge...
The Hindus took SOMA.
The American Indians took Peyote and other mushrooms.
In Africa, in South America,in Asia, people developed a chemical way to access other realms of consciousness...in their own mind...
Was Moses talking to God? No. He was not. Moses was talking to his hallucination...
Was God the one dictating commands to be written in the Bible? No. Their hallucinations were.
So, is the concept of God based on an actual reality? No. It is based on drug induced hallucinations, and in time, on simple imaginations promoted with the intention to reafirm those original beliefs.

Clivedurdle · 10-09-2005, 10:11 AM

Quote:

. .according to references such as Smith's Bible Dictionary, the Hebrew words "Kaneh" and "Bosem" meaning aromatic reed, are found in Exodus 30:23, and refer to the recipe for the Holy Anointing Oil of Israel. Kaneh Bosem is the Semitic root origin of the word "Kannabus" (Greek) and "Cannabis" (Latin). The rewriting of history to which Jeremy refers was actually done in 300 BC when Cannabis was mistranslated from the Hebrew Kaneh Bosem to the Greek meaning calamus. This recipe was revealed to Moses at the same time as the Ten Commandments. In modern units of measure it calls for nearly 8 pounds of Cannabis, along with other spices, for its preparation.

This oil was used to anoint all of the ceremonial vestments of the Hebrew tabernacle and the members of the Aaronic priesthood, as well as prophets and kings. Someone whose hair was anointed with this oil in the hot Sinai desert would contrast the earthly fragrances of desert nomads and would automatically seem "special". Also the fat soluble THC in the Cannabis would be absorbed through the scalp and "inspire" such an individual, so blessedly anointed, with enhanced spiritual receptivity, as is the effect of Cannabis. . . .

from a letter from Rev. Dennis Shields/The Religion of Jesus Church/Hawaii

Etymologist Sara Benetowa of the Institute of Anthropological Sciences in Warsaw discovered in 1936, the connection between kaneh bosm in the Old Testament as the original Semitic Hebrew origins of the word cannabis. Hebrew University in Jerusalem in 1980 confirmed this information as correct. The five passages that experienced the "missing" are Exodus 30:23; Song of Solomon 4:14; Isaiah 43:24; Jeremiah 6:20; & Ezekiel 27:19. Kaneh bosm was mis-translated after the dark ages, where the Bible was prohibited by the Roman Empire. . .

from Stan White/Dillon, Colo.

From did Jesus used cannabis thread, linked to in entheogenic thread above.

Jobar · 10-09-2005, 02:22 PM

Not too long ago there was an article in Scientific American, concerning the possibility that the Delphic Oracle (whose temple is located at the intersection of two fault lines) was 'inspired' by some of the same gasses which get you high if you huff gasoline fumes! History records that some of the oracles died as a result of being shut in to the small room where they made their pronouncements.

jonesg · 10-09-2005, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas II

This is an aspect of the religious experience that we don't talk too much about, and we should...All these imaginary beliefs of "gods" talking to people and visions of angels,etc, have to have been drug induced or at least produced during an altered state of consciousness.
How does this fact affects the validity of the visions, their message,and their origin?
]

American psychologist William James wrote in his book 'Varieties of Spiritual Awakening,

"most spiritual awakenings are of the educational variety"

Chemical induced is just high and from the high comes the down or fall.
A natural, from God, spiritual high doesn't dissipate, it keeps growing because the source is infinite as long as we give it away as freely as it is given. There is no God pill. Reliance on substance is abuse of sorts and usually leads to addiction.

One of the dangers of XTC is it leaves users listless, without emotion, spiritually dead. They were trying to get God from a substance.

http://www.olmsteadcommunity.org/Ins...20Ringwald.pdf

CaptainZen · 10-09-2005, 05:52 PM

Interesting are the books by Carlos Castaneda, the Teachings of Don Juan.
Drugs are made from plants that are available to man. Why should they not be used to find the maximum of possible experiences of the mind/brain? We seem to use only a tiny portion of all the brain cells to get by in daily life.
LSD and Yopo, DMT and Peyote are wonderful ways to explore the amazing powers of creativity.

David B · 10-10-2005, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainZen

Interesting are the books by Carlos Castaneda, the Teachings of Don Juan.
Drugs are made from plants that are available to man. Why should they not be used to find the maximum of possible experiences of the mind/brain? We seem to use only a tiny portion of all the brain cells to get by in daily life.
LSD and Yopo, DMT and Peyote are wonderful ways to explore the amazing powers of creativity.

I found Castaneda's books interesting back in the 60s and 70s.

Since it now seems that they are fiction, rather than an account of of Castanada's life experiences, they seem rather less so.

David B

10-08-2005, 09:50 AM	#1
Thomas II Veteran Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: USA Posts: 8,254	Religious drugs This is an aspect of the religious experience that we don't talk too much about, and we should...All these imaginary beliefs of "gods" talking to people and visions of angels,etc, have to have been drug induced or at least produced during an altered state of consciousness. How does this fact affects the validity of the visions, their message,and their origin? http://people.etnoteam.it/maiocchi/fabbro.htm http://www.bluehoney.org/Mankind4.htm http://www.nick2211.yage.net/indoles.htm http://www.dhushara.com/book/twelve/tw2.htm http://www.serendipity.li/dmt/dmt_bibl.html http://www.earlham.edu/~seidti/iam/interp_mss.html

10-09-2005, 06:53 AM	#5
Thomas II Veteran Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: USA Posts: 8,254	Moses burning bush... http://iamshaman.com/amanita/hiddensymbols.htm My conclusion is that the people who started the religion, Moses being one of them, had this special "connection" with "god" in the way of hallucinations created by the ingestion of a psychotropic plant... This has been done in just about ALL the cultures around the world. In fact, the story of Adam and Eve probably describes such a plant as the Tree of Knowledge... The Hindus took SOMA. The American Indians took Peyote and other mushrooms. In Africa, in South America,in Asia, people developed a chemical way to access other realms of consciousness...in their own mind... Was Moses talking to God? No. He was not. Moses was talking to his hallucination... Was God the one dictating commands to be written in the Bible? No. Their hallucinations were. So, is the concept of God based on an actual reality? No. It is based on drug induced hallucinations, and in time, on simple imaginations promoted with the intention to reafirm those original beliefs.

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10-08-2005, 10:57 AM	#2
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	Entheogenics Sacred places and elecro magnetism It's not only drugs, but probably electro magnetism and anything else that can alter minds! And if its all in the mind, the value is related to if it enables works of art or other insights - or not.

10-08-2005, 01:55 PM	#4
Amaleq13 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Eagle River, Alaska Posts: 7,816	This seems more GRD than BC&H. swoosh.

10-09-2005, 02:22 PM	#7
Jobar Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: secularcafe.org Posts: 9,525	Not too long ago there was an article in Scientific American, concerning the possibility that the Delphic Oracle (whose temple is located at the intersection of two fault lines) was 'inspired' by some of the same gasses which get you high if you huff gasoline fumes! History records that some of the oracles died as a result of being shut in to the small room where they made their pronouncements.

10-09-2005, 05:52 PM	#9
CaptainZen Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: on the Caribbean Island of Sint Maarten/Saint Mart Posts: 38	Interesting are the books by Carlos Castaneda, the Teachings of Don Juan. Drugs are made from plants that are available to man. Why should they not be used to find the maximum of possible experiences of the mind/brain? We seem to use only a tiny portion of all the brain cells to get by in daily life. LSD and Yopo, DMT and Peyote are wonderful ways to explore the amazing powers of creativity.

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