Freethought & Rationalism Archive

spin · 09-22-2009, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funinspace

Quote:

Originally Posted by spin

The rule I gave is fairly straightforward, my thoughts about possible hyperbole notwithstanding.

And would it pain you to share your thoughts on possible hyperbole?

That would require me to think about it which would pain me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by funinspace

Nope, but if there is no coherency what so ever, then is there even a point to putting more than a passing thought into the topic? Maybe one should start deconstructing Marvel comics next...

You just jumped from no necessity of coherence to no coherence. Naughty.

And Marvel comics don't have the same readership or influence.

spin

graymouser · 09-22-2009, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IBelieveInHymn

If you did that survery, and these "supposed" Christians didn't know which one Jesus said, Then I would think they need to brush up on their Biblical studies. However, that doesn't mean Jesus won't save them. Just because people are illierate to the bible, maybe God will accept them? I don't know that for sure, do you?

I just wanted to point it out because you seem to think it benefits your argument that the massive number of Christians don't seem to have a problem with it - when I would bet that many or most of them don't even know it exists. (Particularly Catholics, who are half the Christians and where Biblical literacy for laypeople is uncommon and not highly valued.)

In any case, can you give an instance in Greek (Attic, Koine, Homeric, I'll take it) where the word μισεω (misew, Strong's 3404) is unambiguously used to mean "love less" and not "hate"? Perhaps where a translated source says "love less" and a Greek translation says "μισεω" or vice versa? Or a sentence (aside from the one in question) where it would not make sense to say "hate"? Latin uses odio here, so I'm pretty much tapped out on translations.

Johnny Skeptic · 09-22-2009, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IBelieveInHymn

People attend college classes for five or six years to fully understand the Bible.

And yet there is a lot of disagreement among Christians regarding the flood, the age of the earth, and theistic evolution. Why is that? What is your position regarding those issues?

Consider the following Scriptures:

1 Corinthians 1:11-13

"For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?"

Obviously, even during Paul's time, there was a lot of disagreement among Christians. Why was that?

During the U.S. Civil War, Jefferson Davis was President of the Southern Confederacy. He was a Christian. He believed that the Bible endorses slavery. Why did Davis believe that the Bible endorses slavery? Is it reasonably possible that Davis believed that the Bible endorses slavery because the Bible is not sufficiently clear about slavery? Couldn't Davis had made an honest mistake?

juergen · 09-22-2009, 10:20 AM

Considering the example of a sheer number of 'transformed' Christians, I think John 3:16 should say

"For God so hated the world less, that He gave His only begotten Son..."

But that's just me.

semiopen · 09-22-2009, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IBelieveInHymn
People attend college classes for five or six years to fully understand the Bible.

Karl in Sling Blade

Quote:

I learned to read some. I read the Bible quite a bit. I can't understand all of it, but I reckon I understand a good deal of it.

I'm not sure biblical studies majors are quite up to Karl's level, much less fully understanding it.

spamandham · 09-22-2009, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IBelieveInHymn

Because I think atheists really want the bible to say 'HATE YOUR PARENTS!' because they think it proves Jesus was insane, and full of hate.

I think you'll find most of the atheists involved in these discussions are highly skeptical that any of the quotes in the NT are an accurate record of the words Jesus actually spoke...assuming he existed at all.

Besides, the atheists here are interpreting 'hate' as hyperbole, not as evidence of insanity.

Sai · 09-22-2009, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IBelieveInHymn

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joan of Bark

Hymn, if the original word really means to love less, why don't the Biblical translators use that term in English bibles, thereby avoiding this confusion? Biblical translators are Christians, after all, and you'd think they'd want to avoid any incorrect interpretations.

Because modern copyists are not going to change the words in the bible, so uneducated people can understand it better. When I read 'we must hate our parents', I don't see literal emotional hatred. I see "we must love God more than our parents".

Quote:

But as I said before ...

All these problems we have with Biblical translation and interpretation could have been avoided if the all-wise God had simply transmitted His 'word' directly into our brains.

Why would he do that? Christians outweigh atheists by a few billion people. We understand what it means.. what's your excuse? Because I think atheists really want the bible to say 'HATE YOUR PARENTS!' because they think it proves Jesus was insane, and full of hate.

And all those christians CANT be wrong, because, heck, they all believe different things! What are there, 38,000 demoninations all with the one true path? No CHANCE of error!

That is how we know the Mus. are all wrong! Oh wait...too many of them.
Its the CHINESE who are all wrong, um, or ...

BTW, it is allegedly 1.6 billion Christians, not "billions". Stick to the truth, svp.

And honestly hymn, you should try to get all this projecting you do under control! Consult Luke 6:42 and stop inventing faults that you imagine other people have. Its really tiresome and insulting. You should have enough to do working on your own errors.

Like your tendency to state "facts" (like the Euphrates is dry, billions of Christians) that are not true.

funinspace · 09-22-2009, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spin

Quote:

Originally Posted by funinspace

And would it pain you to share your thoughts on possible hyperbole?

That would require me to think about it which would pain me.

Oky doky, I wouldn't want to cause pain...maybe one should just chill with some vino...

Didn't mean to be marvelously naughty...so I will let go of the wrong end of the needle...

TTFN

Toto · 09-22-2009, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IBelieveInHymn

...
I believe the Bible does say mentally challenged people are automatically rewared a crown of life.

I like to see the chapter and verse on that. Blessed are the retarded, for they shall be crowned???

Toto · 09-22-2009, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IBelieveInHymn

...I think atheists really want the bible to say 'HATE YOUR PARENTS!' because they think it proves Jesus was insane, and full of hate.

No, what atheists really want is to force Christians to admit that the words of the Bible can't be taken literally. The next step is to realize that the Bible is a fallible book, written by people from another time and culture.

Either that or atheists just like to see fundamentalist Christians try to squirm their way out of things.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

09-22-2009, 10:20 AM	#154
juergen Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: South America Posts: 1,856	Considering the example of a sheer number of 'transformed' Christians, I think John 3:16 should say "For God so hated the world less, that He gave His only begotten Son..." But that's just me.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.