Sheshbazzar

Agreed, if such were possible, and the "proof" were evident to all, then faith would no longer be faith; "the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."
Agreed, however the Scriptures do not require nor request that you do any such thing.
Agreed, if you did as you outlined above, and believed that by so doing, your sins were forgiven and you were saved, yes, we agree, nothing did happen, and nothing will happen, and your belief would be a delusion and a self-deception.

However it is not futile to employ the good words of the wisdom of the ages, and the promises of better days, to bring hope to the hopeless, to lift up the downcast, and renew the strength of the weak, time and again, these were the words that have turned sorrow into joy, and defeat into victory; and ever will.
Such as do not acknowledge this are blind and ignorant indeed. The eyes are the light of the body, but if your eyes are blind, great is that darkness.
Recognition (knowledge) of existence, and faith (hope) in the continuance of that existence, without any perception, conception, nor honor of the Power which causes all that exists to exist, is a far more illogical thought process, and is without reason, and without any factual basis.

Loomis

“Agreed. Faith is a good thing. The world is a better place because of people with faith.”

Loomis

Hey Sheshbazzar ,

How would you rank a person who has faith that the “adversary” has seven heads?

Is this an illogical thought process?

How would you rank a person who has faith that Yahweh Elohim hurls thunderbolts?

Is this an illogical thought process?

Sheshbazzar - I think it’s time you come clean. I think it’s time you state your position once and for all on these compelling issues.

Do you believe the “adversary” has seven heads?

Do you believe Yahweh Elohim hurls thunderbolts?

C'mon. You can tell us. We’re your friends.

No one will laugh.

Anat

Let's see: lies to Ahimelech the priest in order to convince the latter to feed him (1Sam 21:3); attempts to extort goods for 'protection', when fails threatens to kill the would be extortion victim (1Sam 25), raids various tribes unprovoked, including some of his own tribe of Judah and associated groups, killing the people and taking the property (1Sam 27:8-12), serves as a bodyguard of a Philistine king, the enemy of his people (1Sam 28:1-2), kills a messenger (2Sam 1). 2Sam 3 makes such a big effort to distance David from the killing of Abner that it is hard to believe, but even if he did not order the killing, he curses Joab for serving him loyally. Curses Michal with bareness for criticising him. He ran many unprovoked wars of conquest and killed prisoners of war (2Sam 8). Then there was the whole Bat-sheba and Uriah story (2 Sam 11) for which he repented. Extreme cruelty to prisoners of war (2 Sam 12:31). David repeatedly humiliates Joab, the man who had been most loyal to him, and eventually David tells his son and heir Solomon to kill Joab (1 Kings 2:5-6). I wouldn't be surprised if there's more stuff on him. But David was quite the teflon man, he got others (especially Joab) to do his dirty work and take the blame.

Loomis

What about Leviathan?

What did the poor little Leviathan ever do?

How can Leviathan admit guilt?

I'm not sure Leviathan could even talk.

I guess we just have to have faith that Leviathan made a boo-boo. :frown:

Sheshbazzar

Our ranks are not determined by individual understandings of esoteric sayings.
Some having a gift of knowledge and understanding may somewhat comprehend the reasons and the ends of symbolic writings, but such gift of interpretation is not a requirement upon all, indeed as I have stated previously, our ranks are composed of the weak, of those whom the wise in their own eyes reject, the innocent children who have not yet learned to read nor to be high minded, striving about words, the simple minded and the mentally handicapped, the illiterate and the innocently ignorant, all whom find no favor in your sight, these are they for whom our Redeemer has spoken; Redeeming them who are unable to redeem themselves.
The rest of us who believe ("AMEN"), are received into those ranks of our weaker brethren, being accepted and justified of Elohim by our expressed belief ("Amen") in Him, and by the sacrifice of our lips ("Amen") as it is written;
"And all the people shall say; "Amen". We being thereby made one people, a people of "Faith" ("Amen"), as in the day that Moshe instructed the children of Israel in this matter, all were enjoined to speak only One Word; "Amen" alone, the wise and the learned being given to speak no other self-justifying words above nor beyond the weakest and the most ignorant amongst the ranks, and a man spoke for his own household, for the suckling infant, for his simple minded brother, and for his senile father. Such is The Faith, (The"Amen") of our Redeemer, whose Word is "Amen" evermore.

As for the sayings concerning "seven heads", if a "believer" -"believes"- ("amens"), the sayings, the only logical thought process for that believer is to accept the "truth" ("ameth") being expressed by the sayings; So say you, so do you, being of a single mind, thought, word, and deed agreeing in One, Amen.
A "believer" ought to -"believe"- ("Amen") the record of The Scriptures; Yahweh Elohim has control over all weather processes, and indeed over all of reality.
Amen
Amen
"lo'amen"
See to it then that you do not, lest you be revealed as a naked liar by your own words.
But laugh, and continue to mock, It requires no great gift of prophecy to predict your conduct.

John Kesler

There is indeed "more stuff" on David, and I will elaborate on an item that you mention. 2 Samuel 1:1-15 relates the story of an Amalekite who "confesses" to killing Saul. Upon hearing this, David orders the Amalekite killed. The problem, aside from the fact that the Amalekite was killed for something he only lied about doing (see 1 Samuel 31:1-4), is that David violated the law of Yahweh, which mandates that only after the testimony of at least two witnesses should anyone be put to death (Numbers 35:30; Deut 17:6; Deut 19:15).

Eldarion Lathria

As a general working rule, in the OT, if a man is referred to as 'a man after God's own heart', he is scum. There may be exceptions, but not many.

Eldarion Lathria

aguy2

What are going to do about it?
aguy2

Eldarion Lathria

Did you mean, 'What are you going to do about it?' Nothing, they're all dead.

Eldarion Lathria