Freethought & Rationalism Archive

August Spies · 10-30-2005, 04:55 PM

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There were Chinese people before the flood (this is extremely well documentated).

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To be honest, i don't want to deal with anything in this topic but this concept that the chinese written history passes right through the date of the flood.

Dude, saying there were chinese people living in china is NOT the same as saying "chinsese written history" has been found from before the flood.

It certainly is documented that humans were living more than 6,000 years ago in china (and everywhere in the world)

cjack · 10-30-2005, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidH

So i hope never again to see anyone let a person state that the chinese written history passes right through the flood and out the other side - and use it as evidence the flood could not have happened.

I knew that when I wrote my post you'd respond with something like this. Let's be clear about it then.

Even if written Chinese history does not predate the supposed date of the flood, it is not in any way shape or form positive evidence that a global flood happened.

There is still:

1. No evidence whatsoever for a world-wide flood. Not around 2304 bce. Not ever.

2. Mountains of evidence that cultures including the Chinese existed long before 2304 bce. Some, such as the Harappan civilization in India, DID have a long written history that predates the "flood," and yet make no mention of it.

I mean, I know you're looking for a "gotcha" moment. You've got one now. However, "therefore, the flood happened" simply does not follow.

Would you concede that point, at least?

FatherMithras · 10-30-2005, 05:09 PM

Hold on a second, I thought we posted links about writing before their supposed flood date? That wins the argument from what I understand. Is the opposition retreating into semantics? Besides, I only rarely heard this argument against the flood. Could someone start a new thread here for the mountain of evidence against it?

Sensei Meela · 10-30-2005, 05:40 PM

When did the Flood happen? (Allegedly)

Weltall · 10-30-2005, 05:49 PM

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Originally Posted by FatherMithras

Is the opposition retreating into semantics?

Can they 'win' this argument any other way?

atheilicious · 10-30-2005, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidH

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Originally Posted by Valentine Pontifex

It might also be useful to expand the scope of the thread a bit to ancient cultures in general.

Not in this thread we won't, we can start another one. I want this thread to only specifically address this concept people on this forum seem to have understood from chinese history.

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidH

Y.B look at post one and then post 3 where i told you exactly what i was going to be discussing in this thread - what do you think i posted up the quotes for, flip what did you think the whole point of this discussion was - that i was just interested in chinese history?And if written history predated the flood it would obviously pass through it!!

Ok, so your whole point of discussion centers around Chinese written records. Fine.

But then you bring along this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidH

So i hope never again to see anyone let a person state that the chinese written history passes right through the flood and out the other side - and use it as evidence the flood could not have happened. And i am more than prepared to understand why 1204 years after a world wide flood - it could be forgotten when they started writing their history.

Didn't you only want to talk about China? Why are you bringing forth the world wide flood? Was China the only land on Earth back then?

You limited others into discussing only the topic you wanted to hear, and then blatantly turned around and used that to justify your belief in a fairy tale that is far beyond the limited scope of this thread you tried so anxiously maintain.

How nice of you. :down:

JEST2ASK · 10-30-2005, 08:16 PM

Simply giving my impression/ opinion : David H & Buckshot 23 no disrespect intended but it appears that there is a purposeful misunderstanding

Quote:

Here is a recent quote:

Quote:
That is so crazy that it is funny! There were Chinese people before the flood (this is extremely well documentated). Then the flood occurs, wiping out all Chinese people (God dosn't like non-white people?). Then Noah's decendents (whom I've always assumed were white), repopulate the earth, and the ones that go back to China, magically adapt to their environment and convert back to Chinese!

Extremely well documented?

Quote:
Ancient Chinese civilization, which far predates the timeframe of the global flood, was known for keeping (for the time) an especially detailed historical chronology of events. (For that matter, the Egyptians were no slouches either, but for simplicity's sake we'll stick to the Chinese for now.)

The main impetus behind their detailed record-keeping was to document the succession of dynasties, of course, but along with it they kept pretty accurate tabs on the earth's happenings, even including major astronomical events. Chinese history can trace an absolutely unbroken line that stretches way back before the flood, through the supposed middle of it, and comes out the other end (up to the present day) unscathed.

I've gone back to the first Dynasty....i mean how much stuff no this site is parading as truth but actually it a complete myth?

I can see why you focus on written history. it is the wording of the second quote that is problematic. However I do not agree that the orginal quotes intentional sought to mislead... It would seem extremly odd that in the records discovered of the first dynasty there is no mention / reference (oral history legend myth etc) later included in the written (preserved) artifacts .. that such an important cultural event would leave no trace ... showing middle eastern orgins or linkage to the "FLOOD Story" .. that the lanaguage itself is so disimlair (OF course I forgot the Tower of Babel where false memories were implanted think Men in Black .. like the false fossil record, )

This was not meant to be flippant as I actually am seeking to learn ...

JEST2ASK · 10-30-2005, 08:26 PM

Total de-rail I was wondering how this thread got into Evolution / Creation :huh:

Seems more fitting elsewhere .

judanne · 10-30-2005, 09:59 PM

This thread has been split to allow davidH and others to discuss whether or not Chinese written history predates 2304 BC ONLY. A new thread has been created to allow any or all arguments/evidence for or against the biblical flood myth.

judanne, E/C Moderator

Jack the Bodiless · 10-31-2005, 02:36 AM

Well, it seems to me that the question has been answered. There ARE Chinese written records that precede the time of the alleged "Flood". They don't form a continuous, detailed chronology which extends right through the period, but this does not matter.

...Unless the creationists wish to assume that the descendants of Noah that arrived in China chose to discard their own language and base their new written language on what they found in Chinese ruins (as they must have done in Egypt, for instance: learning Egyptian hieroglyphics in order to continue the Egyptian records). An additional absurdity in a story already riddled with them.

10-30-2005, 08:26 PM	#48
JEST2ASK Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Central - New York Posts: 4,108	Oh did this Get Here Total de-rail I was wondering how this thread got into Evolution / Creation :huh: Seems more fitting elsewhere .

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10-30-2005, 05:09 PM	#43
FatherMithras Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 3,890	Hold on a second, I thought we posted links about writing before their supposed flood date? That wins the argument from what I understand. Is the opposition retreating into semantics? Besides, I only rarely heard this argument against the flood. Could someone start a new thread here for the mountain of evidence against it?

10-30-2005, 05:40 PM	#44
Sensei Meela Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: AZ, u.s.a. Posts: 1,202	When did the Flood happen? (Allegedly)

10-30-2005, 09:59 PM	#49
judanne Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: near Toronto Posts: 1,757	This thread has been split to allow davidH and others to discuss whether or not Chinese written history predates 2304 BC ONLY. A new thread has been created to allow any or all arguments/evidence for or against the biblical flood myth. judanne, E/C Moderator

10-31-2005, 02:36 AM	#50
Jack the Bodiless Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: UK Posts: 5,815	Well, it seems to me that the question has been answered. There ARE Chinese written records that precede the time of the alleged "Flood". They don't form a continuous, detailed chronology which extends right through the period, but this does not matter. ...Unless the creationists wish to assume that the descendants of Noah that arrived in China chose to discard their own language and base their new written language on what they found in Chinese ruins (as they must have done in Egypt, for instance: learning Egyptian hieroglyphics in order to continue the Egyptian records). An additional absurdity in a story already riddled with them.

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