Joan of Bark

"I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore."

- Genesis 22:17

Similar statements appear in Gen 26:4 and 32:13, as well as 1 Chronicles 27:23, Nehemiah 9:23 and Jeremiah 33:22, whilst in Deuteronomy we get three statements about the Hebrews ONCE being as numerous as 'the stars in the sky' (Deut 1:10, 10:22 and 28:62).

According to ABC Science online, 2003, there are some 7.0 x 10 to the 23rd stars in our universe. Clearly God has some work to do to fulfill this prophecy.

Perhaps he meant visible stars? That doesn't work either, for the opposite reason: there are less than 10,000 visible stars from the surface of the Earth, even under the best conditions. The Hebrews were already much more numerous than that at the time of His statements.

1) So how do the 'literalists' explain these passages?

2) What is the Judaic explanation for something that would be considered a human 'turn of phrase' by most of us?

youngalexander

An interesting question. However, you neglected 'the sand on the seashore'. If a grain is say 1 cubic mm then a cb m will contain a billion of them. No visible sky there, and lots & lots of sand - not to mention beaches.

I am confident that literalist will rise to the occasion and await the explanation with interest.

reddish

Somebody should drop this on the Rapture Ready forum - at least a literal reading will mean that it ain't gonna happen in their lifetime. How disappointing.

I, too, am curious about the answer that a literalist would give to this.

GakuseiDon

What exactly is a "literalist"? I've always thought that that was more of a strawman. I first read the term in Freke & Gandy's awful "Jesus Mysteries". Do you all mean inerrantists? If so, then IIUC then they wouldn't take such expressions literally.

hatsoff

Are you kidding? It's an expression, genius.

Joan of Bark

As I point out at in the second of my questions.

However, Protestant Bible thumpers claim their good book is the ABSOLUTE, LITERAL WORD OF GOD. If they try to dismiss this phrase as an expression, then why can't they see other statements of the almighty as the same?

Joan of Bark

That might be what I mean. However, I've met and heard from many people who CLAIM to be literalists. I agree with you, they are not, so I guess I should have worded the question to reflect this contradiction.

What is the difference between literalists and inerrantists, exactly?

youngalexander

From the Concise Oxford:
By Golly, I reckon all three are relevant.

GakuseiDon

I'm not sure. Inerrantists believe there are no errors in the Bible, but believe for example that the Bible should be treated metaphorically when it uses metaphors. So I suppose (in theory) an inerrantist can believe that some or all of Genesis can be allegorical. You seem to be assuming that a "literalist" takes expressions such as "as numerous as the stars in the sky" literally rather than metaphorically. Freke & Gandy (and Robert Price also I think) use "literalist" to mean Christians who believe that the Gospels are historical records.

When you say "literalist", do you mean inerrantist? Which Christian church has "literalist" dogma? If someone doesn't treat "as numerous as the stars in the sky" literally, are they then not a literalist?

Same question. Who are the literalists? Or do you mean inerrantists?

NZSkep

clearly there were fewer stars back 6000 years ago whent he world was created. The stars that have appeared were as a result of
a) the fall and/or b) satan put them there and/or c) god put them there as a test

there you go a nice easy explanation.

There is nothing that cannot be expalained away by apologists using one or more of those three explanations - particularly the 'goddidit' one.

creation in 6 days? goddidit
the flood? goddidit
jesus' miracles? goddidit
the ressurection? goddidit
parting the red sea? goddidit
kiwi birds despite being flightless somehow getting to the ark from new zealand. not only that but also somehow walking back to new zealand over thousands of miles of sea and land leaving no trace of their exodus? easy. goddidit.

man this apologist business is dead easy.