Naruto

On a thread somewhere, I saw someone cite some scripture from Paul that said something along the lines of "if a Christian deconverts, they can never go to heaven, even if they reconvert." Does anyone know where this is? Thanks a lot.

Paradox

Hebrews 6:4-6

Naruto

Thanks a lot. I can't wait to spring this on my fundy "friend"...

Javaman

And, if you didn't know already, you can add that to the other thing that screws you... and Jesus can't do nuthin' about it:

Mark 3:29
But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin."

Luke 12:10
And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.

Edited to add:
I honestly think this is the strongest case against the common concept of The Trinity.

Paradox

Good Luck! They'll probably just brush it under the carpet though.
Actually it depends on how well your friend has grappled with this issue of "Once saved always saved". Despite how concrete this passage looks there is a fairly strong argument against it.

Even though the church I used to belong to didn't seem to feel there was an adequate answer to this Scripture themselves, they still held on to the idea that a Christian can't lose their salvation. When confronted with it, they would just shrug their shoulders and point to Scriptures that contradicted it.

Paradox

Interesting. I'd not actually heard that one used before. Is it seen as a refutation of the trinity because it portrays Jesus and the Holy Spirit as having two separate characters?

Javaman

In my opinion, yes. Why potential forgiveness for speaking ill of Jesus and none possible for the Holy Ghost? It makes no sense.

Paradox

It makes no sense if you see each character of the Godhead as being identical. Whilst they are all equally God, each person of the trinity is imagined to have different roles.

Its sort of like me being a husband, a lawyer and son. I can be all of those things at the same time, but I would expect my wife not to treat me as a lawyer and especially not as a mother.
Father was the planner, Jesus the mechanics by which salvation was to come and the Holy Spirit the means by which that salvation is attributed to the Christian.

With those ideas in mind, it might be easier to see how the Christian can answer a lot of the arguments against the Trinity.