Danton

It's interesting that the Christian liturgy goes on and on denouncing idolatry whilst at the same time presenting God as almost human eg. Lord, Father etc.
What do you think about this aspect of Christianity?

Clouseau

Jesus described Christians as his 'brothers', too. I don't see a contradiction in any of this. A deity would not unnaturally be someone who was to be obeyed, a lord. A creator could be described as a begetter, a father, and that can apply in both physical and spiritual senses. But the Bible makes a strong link between humanity and potential deity. Mankind is made in God's image- has emotion, moral sense, power to decide between good and evil. God even described people as gods, gods in the sense of being decision takers, if only of personal destiny.

It is the 'father-child' relationship, whereby the 'child' calls God 'Abba' (a sign of intimacy), that the Bible God desires, for the good of the 'child'. Interposition of any over-valued object or person into that intimate relationship is idolatrous because it breaks and ends that relationship.

Gnomelord

I think there is something more to be said for their simultaneous denial of idolatry but obvious worship of icons, personally.

gstafleu

Doesn't idolatry mean worshiping anything else than the True God? If so, the form in which said god is presented doesn't matter all that much. IOW, idolatry doesn't mean worshipping graven images: as long as the images are of the right god (or his entourage, think Mary, Saints and the Charmed Ones) it is OK.

Gerard Stafleu

Gnomelord

That one is kind of a toss up. One could argue that even worshiping forms representative of a god, being not the god itself, would be a form of idolatry. But that, admittedly, is the extreme position. Bottom line is that so long as, to them, it becomes an object more important than god itself, it's idolatry. Which, given how great an abstraction the notion of god is, is a surprisingly easy thing to do. Bear in mind people who would give up months of their time to protest having the ten commandments removed from a court house. That's an icon, of rules, and they express the utmost devotion to it. You've got to admit that at least borders on idolatry.

Danton

That's the trouble about idols which supposedly represent God. People might become more attuned to the idol than to the god, at least that's how many clergy see things.

jayhoot88

Idolatry to me is anything that turns one away from God. Anything that you put before God. For instance people will pray to Mary, while doing so trying to justify thier reason for doing so by saying she was the vessell for the messiah. Mary was just a woman. God had to pick someone. She is not God. For the ones who believe in christianinty: When you die Mary will not be there to greet you. She cannot justify you in the eyes of the lord. But even if the idolitry is supposedly right with God... its still wrong to him. For instance, when moses went up to get the ten commandments and all the israelites melted thier gold or silver or what not to make a giant lamb to worship. They were told to destroy it. Because it was a physical thing made by man and they put faith in this object made of earthly things.

Toto

Hi jayhoot88: This is not the forum for preaching. But you need to review your Bible - it wasn't a giant lamb, it was a golden calf. The golden calf probably represented Egyptian worship of the rising sun - in the Egyptian view of the sky, the sun was born each morning as a golden calf, then traveled across the sky, became impregnated, and gave birth the next morning, and the cycle repeated itself. The problem wasn't that it was a physical thing, but that it represented the wrong astrological symbol.

Clouseau

There was a right one?

Chili

Of course there is because only the Star of Bethlehem will end the cycle of birth and rebirth with the dawning of the seventh day on which the night does not follow.