Truthtells

sateryn,

Since God created, because nature doesn't create itself, then God's design would hold in creating man in His image with a free-will not to coerce right?

God is not merely acting out. Just because He can foresee all events, does that mean he is merely acting or is it genuine relationship and a definite desire to walk with those made in His image who receive His life?

If a parent knows what her child will do, does that mean the parent is merely acting out?

Since Rom. 8.29 for example says God predestinates by foreknowing; He is foreknowing our free choice made in His image which is a conditional election, unlimited atonement, resistible grace, for preservation of the saints.

If everything God does is pure, holy, righteous and true, then it is all good, and it is true free-choice to be under God or under Satan. What's wrong with this?

And why blame God for being all-knowing for doing something out of His glory?

Truthtells

JoyJuice,

Doesn't that make Christianity unique in that they did depart from mythology?

sateryn

if that's so, it's because god wanted it to be that way - even the premise that reality works that way is because god made it work that way.

yes, it does... you can't have a meaningful relationship with a soap opera, no matter how much you insist that they're freely interacting with you.

if the parent had created the entire fabric of reality, been the first cause for the whole of existence, known from the origin of infinity exactly what would happen, when, and why, and then intentionally initiated the sequence of events which would, by their foreknowledge, lead up to what that child would do... than yes, the parent is merely acting out, as is the child.


what's wrong with it is that there is no evidence to suggest any of those things are god, other than his own supposed claim that he is all of those things.

the bible doesn't even claim that god is holy and good, the bible just claims that god STATES that he is holy and good... well, god can say whatever he wants, that doesn't make it true, unless you have a reliable history of everything he says and does being true, or you have independent evidence which confirms the claim.
the god of the christian bible has neither of these things in his favor.

why not? if god did it, it's god's fault... simple as that

JoyJuice

Er....they don't. The Noah acccount is mythology. The Tower of Bable is mythology. The creation story is mythology. The birth of the divine, appointed to task, sent out to be tested by opposing forces to return and save his people, is mythology. There are just too many mythological literary devices to think, even though in essence they're the same motifs as their neighbors, that their's are false and our's are true. It's about meaning, not accuracy.

Truthtells

sateryn,

If a parent knows her child's behavior so well to predict it, how can she have a relationship with her child? The child was created by her parent. Take this to infinity and you have the same glorious act in God's design with a wonderful relationship with His sons and daughters forever.

Why think God is a rapist and a murderer and a harlot and a gambler and a sick freak? Doesn't it stand more to reason seeing us take out Hitler and stopping many atrocities that God's hand is at work to the glory of all things?

In the Bible doesn't God do the right thing every time? When Israel is being bad He punishes them accordingly. When you abide in God's will you have the true fruit of the Spirit don't you?

It is negative to blame God by saying it is his fault. Why not instead accept His wonderful design as is intended so that you may be saved and be with Him and His own people? Why spend eternity separated from God?

Truthtells

JoyJuice,

What makes you think the account of Noah is a myth? Scientifically speaking scientists are convinced of the flood's time and place. Same goes for the tower of babel. We actually know where its location is and observe some pieces of that tower. God doing all He could do to save by entering created to atone for your sins is the most loving act you will ever know.

Compare Christ to any other and you will see none can compare.

sateryn

what? if the first sentence you suggest that the level of foreknowledge god would have about the human race means a meaningful relationship between a single human and god is impossible... and then in the next sentence state if you extrapolate that concept to infinity you have the glory of god?

what the hell are you talking about?

why not? if the shoe fits...

how do you know hitler wasn't doing god's work? how do you know we didn't sinfully prevent god's will by defeating the nazis?

furthermore, even if we take it as read that god didn't tell hitler to do what he did, what would us defeating the nazis have to do with god?
you're fabricating a connection where none exists.

no, he doesn't. in fact, i'd go so far as to say that only exceptionally rarely does god ever do anything moral or just, and for the most part is a spoiled child, with a hardon for his own sense of superiority, and little or no impulse control.

which is more or less like saying it makes you a just and righteous person for randomly electocuting a rat you've stuck in a maze any time it fails to make the right turn... and then it's the rat's fault for not knowing the way out.

no, it's accurate... god did it, it's god's fault. simple as that.

firstly - his design as intended is crap.
secondly - anyone with any shred of morals or sanity wouldn't want to 'be with god' any more than they would 'want to be with jeffrey dahmer'
thirdly - seperation from god is the preferable choice, because it gets you as far as possible from a psychopath.

JoyJuice

Now Truthtells that's pure nonsense. When and where was that, and what scientists are these?

That's what I mean about mythology. Gods impregnating mortal women who give birth to the divine is one of those common motifs. They are called DemiGods. But on this occassion we have a God created from nothing; who once created a God dictated atonement process for man through his covenant of the Law; even though in his omniscience he knows from the first day he created man he will have to incarnate himself in the flesh; so he could sacrifice himself to himself; and then once God dies raise himself from the dead, and then ascended himself.

Your story of God, sin, and salvation, sounds like the Mafia protection racket where they create the problem, and then offer the solution.

Characters of renown or some type of charismatic whose lives are seeped in legend are not new nor profound.

Truthtells

sateryn,

I am talking about the God.

Don't confuse God with the evil spirit in your inner spirit.

Now you are defending Hitler murdering 6 million Jews.

That's my sign not to respond to you anymore. You can't talk with pure evil in the spirit of the someone as fargone as you.

Asha'man

My best argument against the Bible is that people tell utter bullshit stories like the above in order to support a document that is clearly mythology.

"If you have to lie to support your cause, then your cause probably doesn't deserve much support."

The text of the Noah story clearly implies a worldwide flood, any other interpretation of the text simply makes no sense. There would be no need to save any animals for a local flood since they could migrate in from unflooded regions, and God would be breaking his promise every time a new local flood happens. And scientists worldwide will tell you that the geological evidence utterly refutes a worldwide flood. Historical evidence also blows the flood clearly into the fictional category, since the date given by the Bible locates the flood right in the middle of an Egyptian dynasty that noticed nothing.

As for the tower of Babel, you are just spewing nonsense. It's exactly as real as the Tower of Isengard, and the evidence is the same. If you want to claim otherwise, you'd better offer some more substantial proof.

I'm sorry, this is meaningless preaching, and has no place in BC&H. Your statement assumes that God exists and did something, but there is no real evidence for your assumption in the first place. As for the character God in the storybook Bible, he killed himself in order to appease his own sense of vengeance, and his action is probably a textbook example of illogical behavior creating massive injustice.

My second best argument against the Bible is the meta argument: the Bible contains so many statements that contradict both itself and reality, and so many statements that demonstrate a poor understanding of the world, poor morality, bad values, and confusion, that the Bible has lost all credibility as a source of knowledge. Frankly, I can learn more about the universe staring at a lump of rock than I can by reading the Bible.