Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Steven Carr · 07-12-2010, 01:11 AM

Acts 19
While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples and asked them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?"
They answered, "No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit."
So Paul asked, "Then what baptism did you receive?"
"John's baptism," they replied.

Paul said, "John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.'

How had disciples of John the Baptist never heard of Jesus?

dog-on · 07-12-2010, 02:20 AM

The one coming after him, as in the one that hasn't got here yet?

aa5874 · 07-12-2010, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dog-on

The one coming after him, as in the one that hasn't got here yet?

The one who "Paul" claimed was betrayed in the night and was raised from the dead did not come yet?

dog-on · 07-12-2010, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Quote:

Originally Posted by dog-on

The one coming after him, as in the one that hasn't got here yet?

The one who "Paul" claimed was betrayed in the night and was raised from the dead did not come yet?

Did Paul write Acts?

aa5874 · 07-12-2010, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dog-on

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

The one who "Paul" claimed was betrayed in the night and was raised from the dead did not come yet?

Did Paul write Acts?

Did "Paul" write this?

1 Corinthians 11:23-26 -

Quote:

23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in F38 remembrance of me.

25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. 26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

And did "Paul" write this?

Ga 1:1 -

Quote:

Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead....

It would seem that "Paul" found out that Jesus was ALREADY betrayed in the night and was ALREADY raised from the dead by the time he wrote 1 Corinthians and Galatians.

dog-on · 07-12-2010, 08:59 AM

AA, you completely missed the point...

badger3k · 07-12-2010, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Carr

Acts 19
While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples and asked them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?"
They answered, "No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit."
So Paul asked, "Then what baptism did you receive?"
"John's baptism," they replied.

Paul said, "John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.'

How had disciples of John the Baptist never heard of Jesus?

It could be that the writer of Acts was representing a split between rival groups - there is a line somewhere about people being "of Paul, of Appolonius, etc" (to paraphrase) which could be a case of duelling messiahs. The idea that the (eventual) orthodoxy absorbed the followers of John the Baptist and rewrote the history to fit the new group isn't a new one, but I'm unsure of how much support that idea (and many others, to be fair) actually has.

Huon · 07-12-2010, 09:47 AM

The Mandaeans are still existing. They claim that they follow the teachings of JtB.

ApostateAbe · 07-12-2010, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Carr

Acts 19
While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples and asked them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?"
They answered, "No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit."
So Paul asked, "Then what baptism did you receive?"
"John's baptism," they replied.

Paul said, "John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.'

How had disciples of John the Baptist never heard of Jesus?

I need to know how you arrived at the premise that the disciples of John the Baptist supposedly never heard of Jesus. The followers of John the Baptist say that they have not heard that there is a Holy Spirit. Do you think it follows that they never heard of Jesus? Maybe you think that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are the same?

Huon · 07-12-2010, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApostateAbe

I need to know how you arrived at the premise that the disciples of John the Baptist supposedly never heard of Jesus. The followers of John the Baptist say that they have not heard that there is a Holy Spirit. Do you think it follows that they never heard of Jesus? Maybe you think that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are the same?

The followers of John the Baptist say that they have not heard that there is a Holy Spirit.

No, only some followers living at Ephesus, not all the followers of JtB everywhere.

07-12-2010, 01:11 AM	#1
Steven Carr Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: England Posts: 5,629	Jesus who? Acts 19 While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples and asked them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" They answered, "No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit." So Paul asked, "Then what baptism did you receive?" "John's baptism," they replied. Paul said, "John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.' How had disciples of John the Baptist never heard of Jesus?

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07-12-2010, 02:20 AM	#2
dog-on Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 3,397	The one coming after him, as in the one that hasn't got here yet?

07-12-2010, 08:59 AM	#6
dog-on Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 3,397	AA, you completely missed the point...

07-12-2010, 09:47 AM	#8
Huon Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Bordeaux France Posts: 2,796	The Mandaeans are still existing. They claim that they follow the teachings of JtB.

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