usaaok

I am confused at what the bible teaches about an afterlife. Many christians belive that once we die, our soul leaves our body and goes straight to heaven or hell. Firstly where is heaven and hell? Some say heaven is outside the universe, and the hell inside the earth. Others say heaven is in the sky and hell in another part of the universe or outside the universe. Now thats the first theory. Others say the bible teaches the dead are in a dreamless sleep, awaiting Christs return for judgement day. Some say Christ resurects there physical bodies, some say a duplicate spritual body is resurected. I am unsure.

Two passages that contradict eachother are when Jesus says on his secound coming all souls will be resurected from dreamless sleep, and when Lazuris dies he goes straight to heaven and talks and speaks to the rich man in hell.

Whats the original doctrine people?

TruthCounsellor

The second passage that you're refering to is a parable, used to illustrate/communicate a point. As such, it wasn't intended to be taken literally.

TC

Diogenes the Cynic

The Lazarus parable also does not refer to Heaven and Hell but to two different parts of Sheol (actually called "Hades" in the Greek).

muTron the homeless

As far as a spiritual body...

if memory serves this is a Pauline idea and seems to be the earliest formulation of a what happens when we die theology in terms of Xian exposition.

The Bible seems to teach all of the ideas you listed in some form or another which is no surprise considering multiple authors of several different books spanning many genreations. I'd hazard Revelation does not have the same afterlife theology that OT books have.

:huh:

Sign Related

Hell is a person, state, place, and/or thing. As far as person wise there are persons that are 'hell' as an entity self wise and physical wise now.

An example of a place, to me, is the stars. If you were sent to regenerate inside of the sun you'd tell that it's hell alright.

Hell and heaven are one in the same. It's just that it can be said that hell is a greater depth of heaven. But since heaven is in paradox it is point blank hell.

To me, that rich man and poor beggar parable is about any one who is as the hypocrites in a paradox. All the characters that seem depicted as seperate in that parable are actually one. And that one is taken into the worst conflict with their own self.

How is it father Ab is talking with the person that's in torments reveals the whole thing. And do you actually think Ab's bosom is good to be in when there is a person watching you from hell? EEk! Ab's bosom is hell is all that says. I mean, who'd want to be always watched by those in hell from heaven? Not me!

sgary

This is a truth most everyone has a hard time understanding, except the part of the flesh returning to dust (in time). Ecclesiastes 12.6 "Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern. (7) Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was:and the spirit shall return to God Who gave it."
Seeing where we come from, and return to, should be a of interest to us all. For the atheist, it's over (they think the're in a hole in the ground). The fleshly things, skeptics; critics; atheists alike, hold onto because this is all they believe.
Now let's deal with "secound coming" (I think the rapture is a money making lie), 1st Thessalonians 4.13 "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are sleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others that have no hope. (14) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him. (15) For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord, shall not prevent them which are asleep. (16) For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven whith a shout, whith the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (17) Then we which are alive, and remain, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

The words in the Greek, are much more clear than in English, "clouds" = a number that can't be stated, and "air" = spirit. (can give more,if needed?) I hope this helps? scripture is from the JKV, and the bold was added.
sgary

TruthCounsellor

Spirit, in Greek, is pneuma. This word here is not pneuma, it is aera. The exact same word that used in I Corinthians 9:26. Plainly, the translation of it as "air" (as written in the KJV), makes sense.

So, what odd or different doctrine is it that are you promoting?

TC

sgary

Truth, do you find that odd?
The word (aepa) is what is in:The Received Text, or "Textus Receptus" this is what underlies the KJV. And you are right, it is translated air. It can also be translated: heaven; sky; breath: and we can go on, it just depends on the rest of the context (prepositions).
For example (using 1st Cor.9.26 and correct prepositions), the King James translation of the last part of the verse, "not as one that beateth the air:" more correctly in English should read:"as one not beating the air".
Getting back to the Greek "aepa", and I'm not the only one that thinks it means: breath, grab your dictionary (I have the World Book), and check the word "pneumatic", it should have the Latin, and Greek words with the meanings. Then just above that word, should be the word we want, "pneuma", now tell me, what can it be? breath, like the "breath of life" in Gen. 2.7.
Help us out TC, and thanks in advance.
sgary

TruthCounsellor

I do. That's why I asked you for more details concerning whatever doctrine it is that you are promoting. (Which you then avoided.)

It's a stretch, no matter how you slice it. Evidently, there is a reason you want it to mean that. I'd like to know why.

By the way, the Aramaic (Peshitta) also uses a unique word here, meaning neither spirit nor breath (which use another word), that's also used in I Co 9:26; 14:9; Eph.2:2; Rev. 9:2; and 16:17. In all places that it's found, it's translated "air."

So... how about just cutting to the chase and tell us what the significance might be in suggesting that a better rendering of it might be "spirit"?

TC

tezz

Gotta love a christian claiming to be looking for the 'Truth' when asked which (of the three thousand plus christian) doctrine, he is promoting!

:rolling: