Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Clivedurdle · 01-29-2009, 02:10 AM

Why is it so thin?

Did he leave anyone else out?

Someone who he writes is the messiah surely should have had more written about him?

dog-on · 01-29-2009, 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josephus' Ghost

Wasn't me!

:Cheeky:

bacht · 01-29-2009, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

Why is it so thin?

Did he leave anyone else out?

Someone who he writes is the messiah surely should have had more written about him?

If I remember, Wars is very negative towards messianism, and lumps the Zealots together with other end-of-the-world types, all of whom Josephus condemns as destroyers of the nation.

re Jesus: if he was another messianic claimant like Theudas or the Egyptian it would be logical to expect Josephus to dismiss Jesus like the others. If Jesus had no public profile then Josephus would've had no reason to notice him, but this leaves NT readers without support for a public ministry under Pilate as claimed.

mountainman · 01-29-2009, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

Why is it so thin?

Dear Clive,

Josephus' citation(s) is the thin end of the wedge of forgery, behind which discussions of Jesus and his Apostolic Commissionaires are elsewhere referenced and established in legions and legions of other authors of various ineptitude, by means of the citation of official documents, imperial scripts and rescripts, roving authodox reporters, and hosts of ancient "Chestos News" crews. It was a military exercise in the perversion of literature and history. Josephus's little waving flag flies from the top of a mountain of Eusebian research. It did not need to be fat, to be visible at the top of the pile. I am wondering whether anyone sees a macrocosm in this microcosm of the TF.

Best wishes,

Pete

mountainman · 01-29-2009, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dog-on

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josephus' Ghost

Wasn't me!

:Cheeky:

Dear Ghost of Josephus,

Your case has been already plead in JM Roberts' 1892 collection called ANTIQUITY UNVEILED - ANCIENT VOICES FROM THE SPIRIT REALMS PROVING CHRISTIANITY TO BE OF HEATHEN ORIGIN ...

Quote:

FLAVIUS JOSEPHUS.
Jewish Historian.

"I greet you, sir:--

Centuries have rolled away since I passed from my earthly labors .... My life was an eventful one. I lived at the time of the final overthrow of the Jewish nation, which was foretold by our seers, clairvoyants and trance mediums. I am here to-day, to testify in regard to a question which is of vital importance to humanity, and to untold millions of spirits also. It is in relation to the correctness of the doctrine of salvation through a Saviour. It has been claimed by historians and writers, that I was an Ebionite Christian. I positively deny the truth of that statement. I was a Jew of the sect of Pharisees, and at no time leaned toward the Sadducees or to the doctrines of the Essenes. I lived to see my nation dispersed and scattered. At the time when I wrote my histories, there was no such man as Jesus of Nazareth--a doer of wonderful works; and any person of ordinary comprehension, can see that the passage in which it is said I referred historically to such a man, was fraudently interpolated by some Christian copier of my history. First, it interrupts the narrative which I was writing at that time; and in the second place, I always gave all the facts that I could glean concerning those persons of whom I wrote, and if so important a person, as this Jesus has been represented to have been, had lived at that time, I would have given a full description of him.

There were no Christians at the time of my retirement from public life, in the year, 100, in the reign of Trajan. Christianity was the subsequent outgrowth of all the mystical religious systems previously existing. If any person will attentively examine the four Gospels, it will be found that all kinds of pagan worships are there expressed to the understanding of those who were initiated into a knowledge of their true meaning, and the final secret of the whole affair is to be found in the blue vault of heaven, being none other than a modified Sabaism, the worship of the Sun, Moon, Planets and Stars. The Jews were in many respects the same, and their idolatry consisted in symbolizing the signs of the zodiac. So general was this kind of star worship at the outset of the so-called Christian movement, that the founders of that religious system, at first, but slightly deviated from the older religious teachings, but as that system struck deeper, they sought to disguise by chicanery and interpolation of new expressions in the writings of the older authors, the nature of their religion, in order that the masses should never know that important fact.

There is no priest nor clergyman living to-day, who can deny what I have here set forth, if they tell the truth. The only alternative for those who still persist in this work of concealment is, whether they will confess this truth before mortals, or whether they will wait to be forced to confess it before the immortal spirits. It is only a question of time. To all these so-called spiritual leaders I will say, you will have to return to the only religion given by God to man, and that is direct communion with the spirit world pure and uncontaminated with pride and selfishness. This is the Christ--this is the Messiah--this is the light--that is to save all men. Yours for the perpetuation of truth, Josephus."

Best wishes,

Pete

Toto · 01-29-2009, 10:06 AM

Please stop using that word that you invented, <authodox>.

01-29-2009, 02:10 AM	#1
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	Why doesn't Josephus discuss Jesus in detail? Why is it so thin? Did he leave anyone else out? Someone who he writes is the messiah surely should have had more written about him?

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

01-29-2009, 10:06 AM	#6
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Please stop using that word that you invented, <authodox>.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.