steph s.

we don't have the original greek text of romans. the nestle-aland greek text is a synthesis of the greek copies that we have, and they are not all identical. for your thesis to work, you would need to look at each of the greek mss behind the nestle-aland text of 1:1-17 and show that they all have 1000 characters and mention god 8 times, in the places in the text you state.

also nestle-aland is not set in stone, as new editions will keep appearing, and is not the only critical greek edition of the NT.

aa5874

Which God, Allah or the God that created the world in 6 days? I think you mean you are using your knowledge and whatever investigative skills to sort out the mess.

It appears to me that forgeries and interpolations were rampant, but not limited to, 2000 years ago. I have come across the geneaogy of Jesus in Luke 3:23-38 KJV , but this genealogy appears to have been interpolated.
If you look at Luke3:22 and then go directly to Luke 4:1, you will get a complete continuation of the text. Luke 3:22 and 4:1, 'And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved son; in thee I am well pleased. And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the spirit into the wilderness'.

By omitting the genealogy of Jesus, I have what appears to be a seamless text. I have also noticed that the word 'begat' is commonly used in genealogies throughout the bible (KJV), however Luke used 'the son of' which is a bit unusual. The book of Matthew used the term 'begat' exclusively for his genealogy of Jesus.

Newton's Cat

The Greek text of Romans 1, 1-17 has survived with very little variation from earliest times. The Nestle-Aland can be considered to be IDENTICAL to how it was after it was altered. If there are other early texts (of Romans 1, 1-17) that show major variations I haven't come across them.

My main point is that ALL of the references to Jesus and Christianity can be removed from the text of Romans - leaving a perfectly readable text, indeed, the text makes much more sense when Christianity is removed from it!

jgibson000

The only thing that you have proved beyond anyone's doubting is that you do not/will not (and possibly cannot) answer direct questions put out to you, concerning (1) whether you actually read Greek and (2) if you've come to your conclusions about Rom. 1:1-17 through an examination of the grammar and syntax of the Greek text of that passage or an English translation of it.

But on the hope that the third time is the charm, let's put those questions to you again.

Do you read Greek? And if so, at what level?

Are your claims about what is and what is not an interpolation in Rom. 1:1-17 based only upon an English translation of that passage? Or do they come from an actual lexical, grammatical, and syntactical analysis of that passages' Greek ?

If you do not answer these directly, then what becomes "beyond a shadow of a doubt" is that it is wholly reasonable to conclude (1) that you are foisting crank scholarship upon us, (2) that your claims are groundless and not worth listening to, and (3) that enaging with you further on them is a fool's errand that does not deserve pursuit.

JG

Sauron

Let us suppose that you answer the two questions I put to you.

A rambling sidetrack into numerology does not answer my questions.

Once again:

1. Where did you come up with your 1000 word count?
English?
Greek?
The back of a box of Captain Crunch?
Something else?

2. Why is 1000 a significant number?
As opposed to 666?
Or 144,000?
Or the 3rd root of pi?

steph s.

why do you consider it to be identical - have you seen the mss that nestle-aland uses? my point is that if there are minor variations, which you allow, it would scupper the 1000 character count. if some or all of the greek mss have very tiny differences - one might have 997 characters, another might have 1002 - you would have no way of claiming that the 1000 character figure in nestle-aland is representative, and with all probability the equal spacing of the word 'god' in the text would vanish.

Gamera

Again, why do you find that strange in a nonnarrative text. Remove the word Socrates from Plato's writings, and they still make sense. Because they aren't narratives.

Newton's Cat

Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; And declared [to be] the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name: Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

The thinking demonstrated in these verses is the product of very different mind to that of the original author. It is clearly an interpolation.