Freethought & Rationalism Archive

blastula · 05-14-2011, 03:54 AM

That's Don Juan from The Teachings of Don Juan (or via: amazon.co.uk).

They both had religions started around them, but which character has better evidence for their historicity, using the criteria biblical scholars use?

I say Don Juan does. We have very reliably sourced texts of multiple contemporaneous eyewitnesses that claim to have met him. So what if nobody else knows anything about him.

Can Bart Ehrman deny Don Juan exists based on his same HJ metrics?

blastula · 05-14-2011, 04:02 AM

I single out Ehrman because of this interview I just heard.

Infidelguy comes off very bad there, but Ehrman isn't much better with facile arguments from authority. Galatians says "brother of the lord," therefore Jesus existed. Yes, that would not be the extent of his argument, but anything else is just more of the same, and none of it could match the original manuscript eyewitness testimony for Don Juan.

aa5874 · 05-14-2011, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blastula

I single out Ehrman because of this interview I just heard.

Infidelguy comes off very bad there, but Ehrman isn't much better with facile arguments from authority. Galatians says "brother of the lord," therefore Jesus existed. Yes, that would not be the extent of his argument, but anything else is just more of the same, and none of it could match the original manuscript eyewitness testimony for Don Juan.

Bart Ehrman offered no written evidence from antiquity for the historical Jesus. Bart Ehrman made a most LAUGHABLE comment that is completely disingenuous and misleading claim that he does not know any "serious historian who doubts the existence of Jesus".

Well, Bart Ehrman was caught out near the end of the interview. There are indeed Scholars who doubt the existence of Jesus. Bart Ehrman simply FORGOT about Robert M Price.

Bart Ehrman INITALLY claimed he did NOT know Dr. Robert M Price but AFTER further prodding suddenly revealed that Dr. Robert M Price did ACTUALLY COMMUNICATE with him and DISCUSSED his theory about the NON-existence of Jesus.

There are Scholars who doubt the existence of Jesus of the NT.

Bart Ehrman is so blatantly WRONG.

But, what is so devastating is that Bart Ehrman is RELYING on a Faulty memory or mis-leading information to support HJ.

Bart Ehrman FORGOT that there SERIOUS scholars who doubt the existence of Jesus.

Now, that he REMEMBERS Dr. Robert M Price I expect him to RECANT and APOLOGIZE or else Bart Ehrman himself is NOT a SERIOUS Historian.

No SERIOUS Historian could have FORGOTTEN Dr. Robert M Price after he ACTUALLY communicated with Bart Ehrman about the Non-existence of Jesus.

Toto · 05-14-2011, 07:14 AM

Ehrman has actually communicated with Robert M. Price and now has a reading list on mythicism. There is some hope that he will at least improve his reasons for rejecting it.

andrewcriddle · 05-14-2011, 07:22 AM

The accounts of Don Juan by Carlos Castaneda seem to have been shown to be (at least largely) fictional, due to major internal inconsistencies. Eg between Journey to Ixtlan and the earlier works about Don Juan.

Without these inconsistencies it would be probable that Don Juan was a real person.

Andrew Criddle

Toto · 05-14-2011, 07:44 AM

But the existence of Don Juan is based on peer reviewed research :Cheeky:

aa5874 · 05-14-2011, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Ehrman has actually communicated with Robert M. Price and now has a reading list on mythicism. There is some hope that he will at least improve his reasons for rejecting it.

But, Bart Ehrman claimed he did NOT know any SERIOUS historians who doubts the existence of Jesus when he had ALREADY COMMUNICATED with Dr. Robert M Price and DISCUSSED the very same issue, the non-existence of Jesus.

Bart Ehrman cannot be a SERIOUS historian if he so easily FORGETS that a SERIOUS Historian COMMUNICATED with him.

It is MOST remarkable that Bart Ehrman wants to give the FALSE Notion that the historicity of Jesus is SECURE, when he was described as the Child of a Ghost and ACTED like a Ghost, and recognises that even the sources for the history of Julius Caesar an Emperor of Rome may be NOT be credible or historically accurate.

Toto · 05-14-2011, 08:06 AM

The dark legacy of Don Juan

Quote:

Castaneda was viewed by many as a compelling writer, and his early books received overwhelmingly positive reviews. Time called them "beautifully lucid" and remarked on a "narrative power unmatched in other anthropological studies." They were widely accepted as factual, and this contributed to their success. Richard Jennings, an attorney who became closely involved with Castaneda in the '90s, was studying at Stanford in the early '70s when he read the first two don Juan books. "I was a searcher," he recently told Salon. "I was looking for a real path to other worlds. I wasn't looking for metaphors."

The books' status as serious anthropology went almost unchallenged for five years. Skepticism increased in 1972 after Joyce Carol Oates, in a letter to the New York Times, expressed bewilderment that a reviewer had accepted Castaneda's books as nonfiction. The next year, Time published a cover story revealing that Castaneda had lied extensively about his past. Over the next decade, several researchers, most prominently Richard de Mille, son of the legendary director, worked tirelessly to demonstrate that Castaneda's work was a hoax.

In spite of this exhaustive debunking, the don Juan books still sell well. The University of California Press, which published Castaneda's first book, "The Teachings of Don Juan: A Yaqui Way of Knowledge," in 1968, steadily sells 7,500 copies a year. BookScan, a Nielsen company that tracks book sales, reports that three of Castaneda's most popular titles, "A Separate Reality," "Journey to Ixtlan" and "Tales of Power," sold a total of 10,000 copies in 2006. None of Castaneda's titles have ever gone out of print -- an impressive achievement for any author.

Today, Simon and Schuster, Castaneda's main publisher, still classifies his books as nonfiction. It could be argued that this label doesn't matter since everyone now knows don Juan was a fictional creation. But everyone doesn't . . .

PhilosopherJay · 05-14-2011, 08:36 AM

The original Don Juan also has the same claim to historicity as Jesus Christ.

The Spanish Monk,Tirso de Molina, first told his story on the stage (1616?). Since then, he also has been the subject of numerous narratives. The greatest writers and composers of modern times testify as witnesses as certainly as Mark, Matthew, Luke and John: Moliere, Byron, Pushkin, Dumas, Baudelaire, Tolstoy, Apollinaire, Shaw, Camus, Bataille. Composers as diverse as Mozart, Liszt, Buddy Holly and the Pet Shop Boys have sung about him, Some of the greatest movie actors have played him, including John Barrymore, Douglas Fairbanks Sr., Errol Flynn and Johnny Depp have played him. (info from Wikipedia)

* 1630: Tirso de Molina's play El burlador de Sevilla y convidado de piedra
* 1643: Paolo Zehentner's play Promontorium Malae Spei
* 1650: Giacinto Andrea Cicognini's play Il convitato di pietra
* 1658: Dorimon (Nicolas Drouin's) Le festin de pierre, ou le fils criminel
* 1659: Jean Deschamps, Sieur de Villiers's play Le Festin de Pierre ou le Fils criminel
* 1665: Molière's comedy Dom Juan ou le Festin de pierre
* 1669: Rosimon's Festin de pierre, ou l’athée foudroyé
* 1676: Thomas Shadwell's play The Libertine
* 17th century: L'ateista fulminato, Italian play by unknown author
* 1714?: Antonio de Zamora's play No hay plazo que no se cumpla ni deuda que no se pague o convidado de piedra[2]
* 1730: Antonio Denzio's opera La pravità castigata, with music mainly by Antonio Caldara
* 1736: Carlo Goldoni's play Don Giovanni Tenorio ossia Il dissoluto
* 1761: Christoph Willibald Gluck's and Gasparo Angiolini's ballet Don Juan
* 1776: Vincenzo Righini's opera Il convitato di pietra
* 1787: Giovanni Bertati's opera Don Giovanni, music by Giuseppe Gazzaniga
* 1787: Lorenzo da Ponte's opera Don Giovanni, music by Mozart
* 1813: E.T.A. Hoffmann's novella Don Juan (later collected in Fantasiestücke in Callots Manier)
* 1821: Byron's epic poem Don Juan
* 1829: Christian Dietrich Grabbe's play Don Juan und Faust
* 1830: Pushkin's play Каменный гость (Kamenny Gost', The Stone Guest) set as an opera in 1872
* 1831: Alexandre Dumas' play Don Juan de Maraña
* 1834: Prosper Mérimée's novella Les âmes du Purgatoire
* 1840: José de Espronceda's El estudiante de Salamanca
* 1841: Franz Liszt's Réminiscences de Don Juan on themes from the Mozart opera
* 1843: Søren Kierkegaard's Either/or in which he discusses Mozart's musical interpretation of Don Giovanni, and includes another text which develops a similar character called Johannes ("Diary of a seducer").
* 1844: Nikolaus Lenau's play Don Juan
* 1844: José Zorrilla's play Don Juan Tenorio
* 1857: Charles Baudelaire's poem Don Juan aux enfers (Don Juan in Hell) in Les Fleurs du Mal
* 1862: Aleksey Konstantinovich Tolstoy's verse drama Don Juan
* 1872: Alexander Dargomyzhsky's opera The Stone Guest after Puskin
* 1874: Guerra Junqueiro's poem A morte de D. João
* 1878: The Finding of Don Juan by Haidee, painting by Ford Madox Brown
* 1883: Paul Heyse's "Don Juans Ende"
* 1888: Richard Strauss' symphonic poem Don Juan
* 1889: Vernon Lee's short story 'The Virgin of the Seven Daggers', in which Don Juan raises a Moorish princess from the grave in order to seduce her
* 1903: George Bernard Shaw's play Man and Superman; the third act's dream sequence is often played by itself as Don Juan in Hell
* 1902–1905: Ramón del Valle-Inclán's Las sonatas
* 1906 : Ruperto Chapí's opera Margarita la tornera, based on José Zorrilla's dramatic poem. This features a seducer of women known as Don Juan Alarcon.
* 1907: Guillaume Apollinaire's novel Les exploits d'un jeune Don Juan
* 1910: Gaston Leroux's novel Phantom of the Opera, which includes an opera called Don Juan Triumphant.
* 1910–1912: Aleksandr Blok's The Commander's Footsteps (Шаги командора).
* 1912: Lesya Ukrainka's Stone Host (Кам'яний господар), a dramatic poem.
* 1913: Jacinto Grau's play Don Juan de Carillana; also, the play El burlador que no se burla (1927) and the essay Don Juan en el tiempo y en el espacio (1954)
* 1921: Edmond Rostand's play La dernière nuit de Don Juan
* 1922: Azorín's Don Juan
* 1926: Ramón Pérez de Ayala's novel and play Tigre Juan
* 1926: Don Juan, starring John Barrymore, silent film with Vitaphone soundtrack.
* ?: Serafín and Joaquín Álvarez Quintero's play Don Juan
* 1932: short story Don Juan's Confession in Karel Čapek's Apocryphal Tales (Kniha apokryfů)[3]
* 1934: Miguel de Unamuno's Don Juan
* 1934: The Private Life of Don Juan, Douglas Fairbanks, Sr.'s last film
* 1934–1949: André Obey: Don Juan
* 1936: Ödön von Horváth's Don Juan kommt aus dem Krieg (Don Juan comes back from the war)
* 1938: Sylvia Townsend Warner's novel "After the Death of Don Juan"
* 1940: Le Mythe de Sisyphe:Albert Camus. Published by Librarire Gallimard (1942) and by Alfred A. Knopf (1955, 1983) and First Vintage International Editions (1991) in English as The Myth of Sisyphus and other essays. In Camus' anti-suicide treatise, Don Juan is one of three 'Absurd Men', 'heroes' who overcome life with their attitude.
* 1942: Paul Goodman's novel Don Juan or, The Continuum of the Libido, edited by Taylor Stoehr, 1979.
* 1942: Franz Zeise's novel Don Juan Tenorio
* 1944: Josef Toman Don Juan
* 1946: Suzanne Lilar, play "Le Burlador", an original reinterpretation of the myth of Don Juan from the female perspective that revealed a profound capacity for psychological analysis.
* 1949: Adventures of Don Juan, film starring Errol Flynn
* 1950: Don Juan, film directed by José Luis Sáenz de Heredia
* 1952: "A Story of Don Juan", a short ghost story by V.S. Pritchett
* 1953: Max Frisch's Don Juan oder die Liebe zur Geometrie; also Nachträgliches zu Don Juan
* 1954: Ronald Frederick Duncan's play Don Juan
* 1955: Ingmar Bergman's play Don Juan
* 1955: Desi Arnaz as Ricky Ricardo as Don Juan in several episodes (Season 4, Episode #6, #9, #10, #17, #21) of I Love Lucy, the television series.
* 1956: Buddy Holly's song Modern Don Juan
* 1957: Georges Bataille's novel "Blue of Noon", an adaptation of the Don Juan story set in 1930s fascist Europe
* 1958: Henry de Montherlant's play Don Juan
* 1959: Roger Vailland's play Monsieur Jean
* 1960: Ingmar Bergman film Djävulens öga(The Devil's Eye)
* 1963: Gonzalo Torrente Ballester's novel Don Juan
* 1967: In the Star Trek Episode from the first season Shore_Leave_(Star_Trek) Yeoman Tonia Barrows is accosted by Don Juan.
* 1969: Jan Švankmajer's Don Šajn (Don Juan); a short retelling of the Don Juan legend featuring live-action, stop-motion animation, and marionettes.
* 1969/1970: Donna Juanita, a song performed by Swedish artist Monica Zetterlund, part of the revue and TV-show "Spader, Madame!" by comedians Hasseåtage, based on a musical piece by Franz Schubert (Sixth Symphony, Second Movement) - the theme of the lyrics is to show the gender inequality in the fact that Don Juan's philandering behaviour would never have been accepted in a woman
* 1970: The Stoned Guest, a half-act opera by P. D. Q. Bach
* 1973: Don Juan ou Si Don Juan était une femme..., a film starring Brigitte Bardot
* 1974: Derek Walcott's play, The Joker of Seville
* 1975: Lars Gyllensten's novel I skuggan av Don Juan (In the shadow of Don Juan)
* 1980: New York City no-wave artists Mars and DNA recorded a collaborative opera based on Don Giovanni entitled John Gavanti
* 1987: In the Andrew Lloyd Webber musical The Phantom Of the Opera, the Phantom both writes and stars in a fictional opera named Don Juan Triumphant.
* 1987: Post-minimalist composer Elodie Lauten wrote an opera based on a feminist variation of the legend entitled "The Death of Don Juan"
* 1988: The Pet Shop Boys song "Don Juan", which used the story as a metaphor for the seduction of the Balkans by Nazism during the 1930s
* 1991: Georges Pichard'sExploits d'un Don Juan, comic from Apollinaire's novel
* 1995: Don Juan DeMarco, film starring Johnny Depp in the role of Don Juan, and also starring Marlon Brando
* 1997: David Ives' comedy Don Juan in Chicago
* 2004: Peter Handke's novel Don Juan (erzählt von ihm selbst) ("Don Juan (Told by Himself)")
* 2005: José Saramago's play Don Giovanni ou O Dissoluto Absolvido (Don Giovanni or The Dissolute Acquitted).
* 2005: Jim Jarmusch's film Broken Flowers.
* 2006: Don Juan in Soho, a play by Patrick Marber
* 2009: Kasper Bech Holten's film Juan

stephan huller · 05-14-2011, 08:44 AM

Jay,

They mean the Don Juan from the Carlos Castenada series. You know the guy who goes into the desert and does peyote and jimsonweed. Not the guy Johnny Depp played in that God-awful schmaltzy movie with Marlon Brando and Faye Dunaway.

There is considerable debate in scholarship whether Castenada invented Don Juan from a composite of medicine men he had met while studying in university. I only read about the controversy when I was in university myself but remember coming away thinking that there were serious chronological difficulties in Castenada's book. There were also whole passages lifted from some other philosopher's writing as I remember.

The real question for me is - when is the movie coming out. They've made stupider movies before. I know Oliver Stone and his production company Ixtlan Productions seems a prime candidate to get the screen rights http://www.filmmakers.com/artists/oliverstone/

I remember Don Juan's advice for how to deal with an unruly child - get a complete stranger to spank him.

There must be some hold up in the courts or something which won't allow the movie to be made as Castenada is now dead

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05-14-2011, 03:54 AM	#1
blastula Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: USA Posts: 6,070	Don Juan vs. Jesus That's Don Juan from The Teachings of Don Juan (or via: amazon.co.uk). They both had religions started around them, but which character has better evidence for their historicity, using the criteria biblical scholars use? I say Don Juan does. We have very reliably sourced texts of multiple contemporaneous eyewitnesses that claim to have met him. So what if nobody else knows anything about him. Can Bart Ehrman deny Don Juan exists based on his same HJ metrics?

05-14-2011, 04:02 AM	#2
blastula Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: USA Posts: 6,070	I single out Ehrman because of this interview I just heard. Infidelguy comes off very bad there, but Ehrman isn't much better with facile arguments from authority. Galatians says "brother of the lord," therefore Jesus existed. Yes, that would not be the extent of his argument, but anything else is just more of the same, and none of it could match the original manuscript eyewitness testimony for Don Juan.

05-14-2011, 07:14 AM	#4
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Ehrman has actually communicated with Robert M. Price and now has a reading list on mythicism. There is some hope that he will at least improve his reasons for rejecting it.

05-14-2011, 07:22 AM	#5
andrewcriddle Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Birmingham UK Posts: 4,876	The accounts of Don Juan by Carlos Castaneda seem to have been shown to be (at least largely) fictional, due to major internal inconsistencies. Eg between Journey to Ixtlan and the earlier works about Don Juan. Without these inconsistencies it would be probable that Don Juan was a real person. Andrew Criddle

05-14-2011, 07:44 AM	#6
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	But the existence of Don Juan is based on peer reviewed research :Cheeky:

05-14-2011, 08:36 AM	#9
PhilosopherJay Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Orlando Posts: 2,014	And the Earlier Don Juan too The original Don Juan also has the same claim to historicity as Jesus Christ. The Spanish Monk,Tirso de Molina, first told his story on the stage (1616?). Since then, he also has been the subject of numerous narratives. The greatest writers and composers of modern times testify as witnesses as certainly as Mark, Matthew, Luke and John: Moliere, Byron, Pushkin, Dumas, Baudelaire, Tolstoy, Apollinaire, Shaw, Camus, Bataille. Composers as diverse as Mozart, Liszt, Buddy Holly and the Pet Shop Boys have sung about him, Some of the greatest movie actors have played him, including John Barrymore, Douglas Fairbanks Sr., Errol Flynn and Johnny Depp have played him. (info from Wikipedia) * 1630: Tirso de Molina's play El burlador de Sevilla y convidado de piedra * 1643: Paolo Zehentner's play Promontorium Malae Spei * 1650: Giacinto Andrea Cicognini's play Il convitato di pietra * 1658: Dorimon (Nicolas Drouin's) Le festin de pierre, ou le fils criminel * 1659: Jean Deschamps, Sieur de Villiers's play Le Festin de Pierre ou le Fils criminel * 1665: Molière's comedy Dom Juan ou le Festin de pierre * 1669: Rosimon's Festin de pierre, ou l’athée foudroyé * 1676: Thomas Shadwell's play The Libertine * 17th century: L'ateista fulminato, Italian play by unknown author * 1714?: Antonio de Zamora's play No hay plazo que no se cumpla ni deuda que no se pague o convidado de piedra[2] * 1730: Antonio Denzio's opera La pravità castigata, with music mainly by Antonio Caldara * 1736: Carlo Goldoni's play Don Giovanni Tenorio ossia Il dissoluto * 1761: Christoph Willibald Gluck's and Gasparo Angiolini's ballet Don Juan * 1776: Vincenzo Righini's opera Il convitato di pietra * 1787: Giovanni Bertati's opera Don Giovanni, music by Giuseppe Gazzaniga * 1787: Lorenzo da Ponte's opera Don Giovanni, music by Mozart * 1813: E.T.A. Hoffmann's novella Don Juan (later collected in Fantasiestücke in Callots Manier) * 1821: Byron's epic poem Don Juan * 1829: Christian Dietrich Grabbe's play Don Juan und Faust * 1830: Pushkin's play Каменный гость (Kamenny Gost', The Stone Guest) set as an opera in 1872 * 1831: Alexandre Dumas' play Don Juan de Maraña * 1834: Prosper Mérimée's novella Les âmes du Purgatoire * 1840: José de Espronceda's El estudiante de Salamanca * 1841: Franz Liszt's Réminiscences de Don Juan on themes from the Mozart opera * 1843: Søren Kierkegaard's Either/or in which he discusses Mozart's musical interpretation of Don Giovanni, and includes another text which develops a similar character called Johannes ("Diary of a seducer"). * 1844: Nikolaus Lenau's play Don Juan * 1844: José Zorrilla's play Don Juan Tenorio * 1857: Charles Baudelaire's poem Don Juan aux enfers (Don Juan in Hell) in Les Fleurs du Mal * 1862: Aleksey Konstantinovich Tolstoy's verse drama Don Juan * 1872: Alexander Dargomyzhsky's opera The Stone Guest after Puskin * 1874: Guerra Junqueiro's poem A morte de D. João * 1878: The Finding of Don Juan by Haidee, painting by Ford Madox Brown * 1883: Paul Heyse's "Don Juans Ende" * 1888: Richard Strauss' symphonic poem Don Juan * 1889: Vernon Lee's short story 'The Virgin of the Seven Daggers', in which Don Juan raises a Moorish princess from the grave in order to seduce her * 1903: George Bernard Shaw's play Man and Superman; the third act's dream sequence is often played by itself as Don Juan in Hell * 1902–1905: Ramón del Valle-Inclán's Las sonatas * 1906 : Ruperto Chapí's opera Margarita la tornera, based on José Zorrilla's dramatic poem. This features a seducer of women known as Don Juan Alarcon. * 1907: Guillaume Apollinaire's novel Les exploits d'un jeune Don Juan * 1910: Gaston Leroux's novel Phantom of the Opera, which includes an opera called Don Juan Triumphant. * 1910–1912: Aleksandr Blok's The Commander's Footsteps (Шаги командора). * 1912: Lesya Ukrainka's Stone Host (Кам'яний господар), a dramatic poem. * 1913: Jacinto Grau's play Don Juan de Carillana; also, the play El burlador que no se burla (1927) and the essay Don Juan en el tiempo y en el espacio (1954) * 1921: Edmond Rostand's play La dernière nuit de Don Juan * 1922: Azorín's Don Juan * 1926: Ramón Pérez de Ayala's novel and play Tigre Juan * 1926: Don Juan, starring John Barrymore, silent film with Vitaphone soundtrack. * ?: Serafín and Joaquín Álvarez Quintero's play Don Juan * 1932: short story Don Juan's Confession in Karel Čapek's Apocryphal Tales (Kniha apokryfů)[3] * 1934: Miguel de Unamuno's Don Juan * 1934: The Private Life of Don Juan, Douglas Fairbanks, Sr.'s last film * 1934–1949: André Obey: Don Juan * 1936: Ödön von Horváth's Don Juan kommt aus dem Krieg (Don Juan comes back from the war) * 1938: Sylvia Townsend Warner's novel "After the Death of Don Juan" * 1940: Le Mythe de Sisyphe:Albert Camus. Published by Librarire Gallimard (1942) and by Alfred A. Knopf (1955, 1983) and First Vintage International Editions (1991) in English as The Myth of Sisyphus and other essays. In Camus' anti-suicide treatise, Don Juan is one of three 'Absurd Men', 'heroes' who overcome life with their attitude. * 1942: Paul Goodman's novel Don Juan or, The Continuum of the Libido, edited by Taylor Stoehr, 1979. * 1942: Franz Zeise's novel Don Juan Tenorio * 1944: Josef Toman Don Juan * 1946: Suzanne Lilar, play "Le Burlador", an original reinterpretation of the myth of Don Juan from the female perspective that revealed a profound capacity for psychological analysis. * 1949: Adventures of Don Juan, film starring Errol Flynn * 1950: Don Juan, film directed by José Luis Sáenz de Heredia * 1952: "A Story of Don Juan", a short ghost story by V.S. Pritchett * 1953: Max Frisch's Don Juan oder die Liebe zur Geometrie; also Nachträgliches zu Don Juan * 1954: Ronald Frederick Duncan's play Don Juan * 1955: Ingmar Bergman's play Don Juan * 1955: Desi Arnaz as Ricky Ricardo as Don Juan in several episodes (Season 4, Episode #6, #9, #10, #17, #21) of I Love Lucy, the television series. * 1956: Buddy Holly's song Modern Don Juan * 1957: Georges Bataille's novel "Blue of Noon", an adaptation of the Don Juan story set in 1930s fascist Europe * 1958: Henry de Montherlant's play Don Juan * 1959: Roger Vailland's play Monsieur Jean * 1960: Ingmar Bergman film Djävulens öga(The Devil's Eye) * 1963: Gonzalo Torrente Ballester's novel Don Juan * 1967: In the Star Trek Episode from the first season Shore_Leave_(Star_Trek) Yeoman Tonia Barrows is accosted by Don Juan. * 1969: Jan Švankmajer's Don Šajn (Don Juan); a short retelling of the Don Juan legend featuring live-action, stop-motion animation, and marionettes. * 1969/1970: Donna Juanita, a song performed by Swedish artist Monica Zetterlund, part of the revue and TV-show "Spader, Madame!" by comedians Hasseåtage, based on a musical piece by Franz Schubert (Sixth Symphony, Second Movement) - the theme of the lyrics is to show the gender inequality in the fact that Don Juan's philandering behaviour would never have been accepted in a woman * 1970: The Stoned Guest, a half-act opera by P. D. Q. Bach * 1973: Don Juan ou Si Don Juan était une femme..., a film starring Brigitte Bardot * 1974: Derek Walcott's play, The Joker of Seville * 1975: Lars Gyllensten's novel I skuggan av Don Juan (In the shadow of Don Juan) * 1980: New York City no-wave artists Mars and DNA recorded a collaborative opera based on Don Giovanni entitled John Gavanti * 1987: In the Andrew Lloyd Webber musical The Phantom Of the Opera, the Phantom both writes and stars in a fictional opera named Don Juan Triumphant. * 1987: Post-minimalist composer Elodie Lauten wrote an opera based on a feminist variation of the legend entitled "The Death of Don Juan" * 1988: The Pet Shop Boys song "Don Juan", which used the story as a metaphor for the seduction of the Balkans by Nazism during the 1930s * 1991: Georges Pichard'sExploits d'un Don Juan, comic from Apollinaire's novel * 1995: Don Juan DeMarco, film starring Johnny Depp in the role of Don Juan, and also starring Marlon Brando * 1997: David Ives' comedy Don Juan in Chicago * 2004: Peter Handke's novel Don Juan (erzählt von ihm selbst) ("Don Juan (Told by Himself)") * 2005: José Saramago's play Don Giovanni ou O Dissoluto Absolvido (Don Giovanni or The Dissolute Acquitted). * 2005: Jim Jarmusch's film Broken Flowers. * 2006: Don Juan in Soho, a play by Patrick Marber * 2009: Kasper Bech Holten's film Juan

05-14-2011, 08:44 AM	#10
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	Jay, They mean the Don Juan from the Carlos Castenada series. You know the guy who goes into the desert and does peyote and jimsonweed. Not the guy Johnny Depp played in that God-awful schmaltzy movie with Marlon Brando and Faye Dunaway. There is considerable debate in scholarship whether Castenada invented Don Juan from a composite of medicine men he had met while studying in university. I only read about the controversy when I was in university myself but remember coming away thinking that there were serious chronological difficulties in Castenada's book. There were also whole passages lifted from some other philosopher's writing as I remember. The real question for me is - when is the movie coming out. They've made stupider movies before. I know Oliver Stone and his production company Ixtlan Productions seems a prime candidate to get the screen rights http://www.filmmakers.com/artists/oliverstone/ I remember Don Juan's advice for how to deal with an unruly child - get a complete stranger to spank him. There must be some hold up in the courts or something which won't allow the movie to be made as Castenada is now dead

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