Freethought & Rationalism Archive

RGD · 06-01-2005, 03:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jly

Oh what you call preaching may be debating, but you just don't know it. I will not be here long enough to send a note.

Oh. So JesusLovesYou is just a drive-by missionary. No point in responding to anything he/she says, then: a) he/she won't care, and b) he/she won't care.

Interesting psychology, though.

post tenebras lux · 06-01-2005, 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lola

BTW.....IMO, I for one, do think Luxie is "cute"

Awww, shucks (Blushes, whether visibly or not). Although the mere fact that other people find me cute would not stopping me from thinking I'm actually a pillock, if I so choose.

Quote:

Well, what he writes cracks me up, anyway! :rolling:

Ah, but that's probably just my cackhanded syntax. After all, why write something pithy, when one can add a qualifying clause, together with a couple of accompanying sub-clauses to stop it getting lonely - just like now.

Quote:

(Hiya Luxie, you handsome devil you... :devil3: How's the breakfast nook coming along?! :wave: )

Whoops. No progress on the house, as I'm spending all the time I have there on trying to control that jungle I flatter myself by calling 'a garden'. But I have done some re-arranging of my appartment so that there are three or four little - and not so little - 'nooks'. Unfortunately, my kitchen is north-facing and so my breakfast nooks have to make do with dawn reflecting off the office block opposite.

Luxie

Sven · 06-01-2005, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RussianM3_dude

I had NO knowledge of the Bible or Jebus when I was a child (Positive OR negative).
It was MY idea for my mother to read me the Bible every night before bed.
I, a seven year-old child found the Bible to be absurd, deranged ramblings from pseudo-cavemen. And most distressingly it was utterly boring. I lasted two weeks.

Another example is "Sven's girl-friend test". Look it up, it's in an old thread.

To explain: Occasionally, I present some bible verses to my girl-friend, who was raised without any religion (including no bashing of religion AFAIK). She's usually quick to find exactly the problems we discuss so often here, without any need for me to even point out that there are problems.
Examples: Judas' Death. Two creation stories.

This only shows that one can not come to the conclusion of inerrancy when reading the bible with an "open mind" without starting with a belief in inerrancy.

JesusLovesYou · 06-01-2005, 10:09 AM

[QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by post tenebras lux

?? :huh: ??
Sorry, but do I know you? I didn't think any of my friends were currently in Kansas.
So, what makes you think that I think that I'm cute? And, if I did happen to think that I was cute, then how do you know whether I really am that cute or not? :huh:

Quote:

Quote=post tenebras lux]I don't quite follow your statements; are you saying that this thread should be entitled 'Jesus: Lord, Lunatic, Liar, or LoverBoy?'?

You stated your post with Hi, so I said Hello, you then threw in your loverboy statement, which along with other peoples post hinted and said Jesus just wanted me for sex, so my you aren't as cute as you think comment.

Quote:

Quote=post tenebras lux] How did he come to earth? (as you make it sound like he's not from around here.)
When you say that he died: do you mean that he was fully dead with rigor mortis, bloating belly and general putrefaction?
What are sins? What are my sins? And how do my sins relate to someone who died before I was born? Did my sins exist before I did or something? :huh:
Explain please: by 'rose again' do you mean that he wasn't really dead? If he was really dead, then who brought him back to life?Where exactly, please? Where is God's right hand? And why the right hand? What's wrong with sitting on God's left hand? :huh: Is this Jesus guy handist or something?Why? :huh:Why would that make him a lunatic? Perhaps you mean 'and he claimed that he would come again for those who believe in him'.

If you are talking of Jesus He was born of a virgin, Mary, I believe you probably know the story, but will list scriptures if you like. Nope, not from around here, you are right.

Yes, he died, no heart beat no breathing.

What are your sins? Are you saying that you are without sin? If we just used the Ten Commandments as an example, can you say that you have kept them all? No, your sins did not exist before you were born, but since God knew you and I would sin, because of our human nature, He sent His son to be a sacrifice for those sins. Covering them with His own blood, before you were even born.

Yes, He was really dead and buried. He came back to life because His Father(God) brought Him back to life. He was seen alive by over 500 people.

Jesus is sitting at God's right hand, and if you didn't already know the answer, you wouldn't know the question, would you. Why the right hand? Would say He is God's right hand man, would be close to right. The right hand is a position of authority.

Nothing would make Him a luniatic in my book, but I know that you would disagree with that.

Yes, He says He is coming again for His own, and I believe that He will and that it is very soon.

Hope this answered your questions, if not let me know.

Jesus Loves You

JesusLovesYou · 06-01-2005, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilbato

If you will note, he says, "give yourself unto your god" He does not say my god, YOUR god. And seeing as how, it is of my opinion, that gods are only powerful in the willingness of people to believe in them. They exist entirely within the mind, and so people will act as if these things within their mind are real, but they are just delusions, something to comfort them.

So in that sense, many people have a god. Whether it be money, sex, tv, games, books, or even Yahweh. And though the majority of them are in fact actual physical things. There are ones, such as Yahweh, which are nothing more then intangible ideas that have been passed down from a people who were once pagan, and had found a god that demanded that he is the god above all gods. And that they were to worship only him, and none of the others. So even the OT shows how pantheistic and pagan the Jews were, whom from which developed Christianity and Islam.

Good to know isn't it, that the religion you hold so dear... the god came from a world of pagans and that he himself was at one point a pagan god?

Throughout history man has worshiped many gods and idols, but have always came back to the one true God. So how you see history and I see history aren't the same.

You think I am delusional, and God says you are. I believe God.

Quote:

Quote=Jesus Loves You]
Romans 1:16-32
16For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Jesus Loves You

JesusLovesYou · 06-01-2005, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RussianM3_dude

Look, JebusLovesMe, It might come as a shock, but not everyone thinks Jebus was a historical being and Bible is a word of Sugar Sky-Daddy Jebus.

I had NO knowledge of the Bible or Jebus when I was a child (Positive OR negative).
It was MY idea for my mother to read me the Bible every night before bed.
I, a seven year-old child found the Bible to be absurd, deranged ramblings from pseudo-cavemen. And most distressingly it was utterly boring. I lasted two weeks.

Like a seven year old, has a mature mind for understanding. That would be like saying a seven year old should drive a care, or do heart surgery.
Can't see how your point really means much, sorry.

Jesus Loves You

IsItJustMe · 06-01-2005, 10:23 AM

I would say:

A person could believe he was god (assuming Jesus did so believe, which is not really altogether clear) in the 1st century without being schizophrenic or in any way diagnosably mentally ill. LOTS of people were going around claiming to be gods at that time, and most people at least paid lip service to the idea that one person, the Roman emperor, was a god. Put another way, back then it was a much easier mistake to make.

So I think Lewis's dilemma imposes the culture and beliefs of his time on the first century unfairly.

JesusLovesYou · 06-01-2005, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RGD

Oh. So JesusLovesYou is just a drive-by missionary. No point in responding to anything he/she says, then: a) he/she won't care, and b) he/she won't care.

Interesting psychology, though.

When you become God, then you can tell me who I do and do not care for, but I don't believe you are there yet.

Drive by missionary, now isn't that cute. As I have said more then once I came here just to see what you and the site were about, because it was mentioned by some atheist on a Christian site. I put some scriptures of God's love down because things seemed a little onesided, and knew you would want it to be balanced.

Jesus Loves You

Gawen · 06-01-2005, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesuslovesyou

I guess I probably better go read the rules just in case I'm wrong. I know the moderator will let me know since they check all my post before posting them.

No...moderators cannot check people's posts before they post them. I don't know where you got that idea.

Ones of the greatest reasons why scripture cannot be used as evidence or proofs of God is because the Bible is circular. "The Bible is true because it says it is true". This is no evidence of the existance of the Christian God.

Bilbato · 06-01-2005, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JesusLovesYou

Throughout history man has worshiped many gods and idols, but have always came back to the one true God. So how you see history and I see history aren't the same.

Ah, so that means all the Wiccans, pagans, satanists, buddhists, Hindus, etc are all going to come back to god no matter what? mmhmm *cough*bullshit*cough* oh sorry about that.

And history, whether you like it or not, is the way it is and cannot be redone. What has happened, hass happened. So whether you want to accept the fact that the Bible was written by a group of people who were trying to survive in a tumultuous time with very little for them to hold onto, thats your problem. Bit the fact is that that is the case. The OT was written to bind the ancient Jews to one another. So that through the dispora that continually happened to them, they would still have something to call themselves.

So again, before you really want to start debating with me about the geopolitical history of the Jews and the Bible, read the books I have mentioned. Also, I like it how you keep quoting the Bible, which almost all of us discard as an irrelevent piece of crap writing. And I also like how you have yet to answer my other question. Which do you believe in Yahweh or El Shaddai?

ETA: I guess I should also add Islam and Jews to the above list of people who will inevitably return to this "one true god" person you keep babbling about.

View Poll Results: Lord, liar, lunatic or...
Lord	12	5.43%
Liar	2	0.90%
Lunatic	5	2.26%
None of the above: he was probably a cult leader about whom people invented stories after his death	119	53.85%
None of the above: he was a myth	74	33.48%
A combination of lunatic and liar	9	4.07%
Voters: 221. You may not vote on this poll

06-01-2005, 10:23 AM	#97
IsItJustMe Veteran Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Next smoke-filled cellar over from Preno. Posts: 6,562	At the risk of getting this thread back on track I would say: A person could believe he was god (assuming Jesus did so believe, which is not really altogether clear) in the 1st century without being schizophrenic or in any way diagnosably mentally ill. LOTS of people were going around claiming to be gods at that time, and most people at least paid lip service to the idea that one person, the Roman emperor, was a god. Put another way, back then it was a much easier mistake to make. So I think Lewis's dilemma imposes the culture and beliefs of his time on the first century unfairly.

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