Kosh

NP. Nobody knows more about water than the Danish! (Danish == Dutch, right?)

spin

One should point out also that Palestine was under the influence of Egypt for a very long time, several centuries down to the arrival of the Philistines, then again from the reign of Sheshonq I onwards until the Assyrians muscled in. You will find an enormous number of Palestinian made scarabs from Sheshonq's time onwards to the Persian period. Direct Egyptian influence was there in the earlier part of the Iron Age II, so why wasn't it in Hebrew literature? Perhaps because none of the Hebrew literature was written at that time. Perhaps the Hebrew language hadn't as yet emerged.


spin

Sauron

That's what you get with "bronze Age goat herders".

Sarpedon

Hey everyone, I've been a little busy the past few days, and would like to thank you all for the vigorous defence you gave my point. You got little wrong when you guessed my reasoning.

Poor people would have been buried en-mass...even if they were buried in separate graves, they probably would have been buried close together, so the overtaxed Osiris priests could perform the necessary rituals.

Those with no family would probably be dumped in big pits.

And those with means would probably be buried together in tombs, either a bunch put in a tomb prepared for one, or even in old family tombs that were re-opened for emergency use (which happened frequently enough in the case of unexpected deaths in egypt) Source: Akhnaten, heretic king, in the section that describes the search for his tomb, also describes general burial practices in the New Kingdom.

And lets imagine what a well-to do man, losing his brother, his son, his nephew, his brother-in-law, and possibly even grandson, ON THE SAME DAY, and having to bury them, might have written on the wall of the tomb. I expect that it would be heart-rending. I also expect that he would remark on the strangeness of them all dying at once, with no previous sign of illness.

Also, another bit of evidence that might show up....have you ever thought of what kind of economic depression the events in exodus would cause? every animal dying, a signifcant proportion of males dying, crop damage from hail, locusts, beetles, lack of water and so forth. Wouldn't that leave evidence as well? We do have some evidence of economic depressions in Egypt..for example, the temples kept records of donations received. There was a major drop in temple revenue after the death of Ramses II. (the source for this is some TV show I watched on the discovery channel) This drop is, however not significant enough to be evidence for the exodus events...one would expect that there would have been an enormous famine, and the temple would likely have not even kept records that year, as everyone would have been busy starving to death. Anyway, the date is too late for most exodus chronologies.

The oft-repeated point still holds: for these amazing and extraordinary events, one would expect some evidence to remain, even after 3,000 years. And I repeat: 100 years of archaeology, thousands of finds, ZERO evidence for Exodus.

Ave!

Celsus

I'd like to clear up a common misconception here. "Bronze Age goat herders" did not write the Bible. Quite clearly, they were from the Iron Age.

Joel

DrJim

leonard writes about a previous post of mine: when did I say there was no Egyptian loan words in Hebrew? What I did say was this:

"at least some Egyptian names" should imply that one could find more. It was not me who claimed there was no substantial number of loan words. All I am doing is deferring to someone else's claims since I cannot judge, yet opening the door to accomodate what ever data you may bring. The actual disagreement between you and I is the interpretation of the data: you say it is evidence of that the Exodus occured. I say "no" because you have consistently refused to demonstrate that there can be no other reasons for loan words in Hebrew.

If there is to be any further point to this thread, please stop misrepresenting people, making them say things they did not.

And for pity's sake, prove your claims once in a while.

If you have no "Cause" then you could actually admit your own lack of proof for your claims. That you consistently avoid the issues indicates to me that you have no proof, only an agenda.

JRL

Sarpedon

If they were iron age, why do they use flint knives for circumcision? STONE AGE SHEEP HERDERS.

edited to add winky

Doctor X

Well . . . like . . . since they only had . . . like . . . you know . . . a thousand years to develop after . . . get this . . . the Flood . . . they were like . . . THESE AREN'T MY CRAYONS!!! Stoned Age . . . heh . . . "stoned age" . . . bronze age . . . and Iron age . . . as well as silver and gold age. . . .

--J. "Colors!" D.

Sauron

...but we can't have that, can we?

leonarde's been busy over in the Temporary 2004 Election Forum. So I reminded him that he has unfinished business over here, in Biblical Criticism and History:

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.p...38#post1431738

leonarde

Calling all sockpuppets!