Freethought & Rationalism Archive

ms tree · 12-09-2003, 10:15 AM

i find it interesting to note that in genesis 5 adam is said to have lived 130 years, begot seth, his 3rd son, then lived another 800 years. now, that's a pretty long time. plenty of time to have quite a lot to say about god.

but, there are few words attributed to adam or eve & after genesis 5 virtually none. yet, the original 2 humans have nothing to say about their personal experience with their creator & the creator of the universe? who better to validate the existance & will of god but them? why is it the abramhic tradition & not the adamite tradition or the eveite tradition?

& what mother & father was adam to leave & 'be joined to his wife, & they shall become one flesh"? (genesis 2:24) the only 'parent' adam had was god (according to genesis)- is adam being advised to leave his only parent - god, - in favor of joining with his wife, eve? & when the heck did god announce adam & eve were 'married', except in the quoted verse? were they married simply because they were the only 2 people on earth? does this mean that all people are married because all people are alive? was adam following god's vague instructions when he ate of the fruit after eve gave it to him (genesis 3:6)?

could it be that a 1000s year old tradition of following the teachings of the bible were all based on faulty assumptions? shouldn't the experiences & words of the first 2 human be more important than any other person that is reported to have interacted with god? even moses was not shown the true nature of god because god was too overwhelming! only adam & eve are reported to have truly 'walked with god'.

when i hear xians exhorting peole to get back to the basics of the bible i tend to think they mean the REAL basics - the first 2 teachers of the xian god - eve & adam. unfortunately, they don't have much to say. the best i can figure out is that eve was the leader & adam followed her (according to the actions & words of the first humans!) - all according to god's instructions!

so, if genesis is the first then everything & everyone that came after & goes against the very first instructions from god to humans is an attempt to violate the oldest most important instruction god ever issued - that is if one would consider that god would have communicated the absolute essentials FIRST before any lesser commandments. "Therefore a man shall leave his father & mother & be joined to his wife, & they shall become one flesh." - the first order given - (genesis 2:24)

Doctor X · 12-09-2003, 06:18 PM

There was an attempt at a variety show back in the '70s, but it never caught on.

Anyways, there is always a problem treating myth as reality.

--J.D.

ms tree · 12-09-2003, 09:18 PM

70s show! very good, dr x

seriously, it's been one of those questions i have had for a long time yet no one around here will talk about it. i am really curious & wondered if this had ever been discussed - well, that anyone knew of - or why not. surely i can't be the first one to ask such a question - can i?

rlogan · 12-09-2003, 10:22 PM

Hi MS Tree.

You had more than one question that I might paraphrase - is Genesis a slice of the B.S. Bible pie? Yup.

There are several threads you can look for on who wrote the pentateuch, the creation myth, what preachers don't want you to know, who wrote the Bible, and the like.

There's been plenty on that and Dr. X is pointing out that the whole thing is a myth - so don't get too wrapped up in it not being consistent.

Peter Pan's wings are not large enough to support his weight. But what's the point of harping on it? Its a fairy tale.

I seem to recall that one school of thought is that Genesis was written during/after the Babylonian captivity and that is why we observe the Babylonian stories of creation and flood in Genesis.

It is also why it appears "slapped on" to the front of the bible without any coherent referencing to it in the "later" books that were actually written before hand.

Doctor X · 12-10-2003, 03:43 PM

Friedman in has Who Wrote the Bible? argues for a pre-exilic dating of the primary authors--J and E and even P. He notes the use of Babylonian/Sumerian myth, but does not account for it.

I will look to see if there is an explanation for it. The use of Babylonian/Sumerian myth suggests a post-exilic date.

--J.D.

Mageth · 12-10-2003, 03:51 PM

As an aside, for an entertaining read, and an interesting twist on the story, try Mark Twain's The Diaries of Adam and Eve. Thoroughly enjoyable.

Edited Amazon URL - MD

ms tree · 12-10-2003, 04:55 PM

thanx everyone. no worries - i know it's all fairy tales. i appreciate the info & the link.

what i was attempting to say was that it seemed as tho the BEST voice for the whole thing - creation & what god was like, said, etc. - would have been the voice of the first two people rather than the others that came later. my thought was that the first two would have had a much better claim to 'authority' than anyone else.

perhaps it is a lame question. oh, well - anyway, i think the biblers miss out on a grand opportunity!

Mageth · 12-10-2003, 05:12 PM

Well, seeing as Adam was given the duty of naming every "living creature", I suspect he was kept busy every waking hour for the whole 800 years or so with this daunting task.

Roller · 12-10-2003, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mageth
Well, seeing as Adam was given the duty of naming every "living creature", I suspect he was kept busy every waking hour for the whole 800 years or so with this daunting task.

Especially if he used the pre-Linnaeus naming approach

offa · 12-10-2003, 06:44 PM

the animals he named were humans and he was setting up a caste system. if you lived outside his tiny little world you were not living. if you believe in GOD you have everlasting life and if you do not believe, then you are dead. a corpse. An evangelist brings you from the dead. myself, I like being dead.

12-09-2003, 10:15 AM	#1
ms tree Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: oklahoma, usa Posts: 85	what happened to the voice of adam & eve? i find it interesting to note that in genesis 5 adam is said to have lived 130 years, begot seth, his 3rd son, then lived another 800 years. now, that's a pretty long time. plenty of time to have quite a lot to say about god. but, there are few words attributed to adam or eve & after genesis 5 virtually none. yet, the original 2 humans have nothing to say about their personal experience with their creator & the creator of the universe? who better to validate the existance & will of god but them? why is it the abramhic tradition & not the adamite tradition or the eveite tradition? & what mother & father was adam to leave & 'be joined to his wife, & they shall become one flesh"? (genesis 2:24) the only 'parent' adam had was god (according to genesis)- is adam being advised to leave his only parent - god, - in favor of joining with his wife, eve? & when the heck did god announce adam & eve were 'married', except in the quoted verse? were they married simply because they were the only 2 people on earth? does this mean that all people are married because all people are alive? was adam following god's vague instructions when he ate of the fruit after eve gave it to him (genesis 3:6)? could it be that a 1000s year old tradition of following the teachings of the bible were all based on faulty assumptions? shouldn't the experiences & words of the first 2 human be more important than any other person that is reported to have interacted with god? even moses was not shown the true nature of god because god was too overwhelming! only adam & eve are reported to have truly 'walked with god'. when i hear xians exhorting peole to get back to the basics of the bible i tend to think they mean the REAL basics - the first 2 teachers of the xian god - eve & adam. unfortunately, they don't have much to say. the best i can figure out is that eve was the leader & adam followed her (according to the actions & words of the first humans!) - all according to god's instructions! so, if genesis is the first then everything & everyone that came after & goes against the very first instructions from god to humans is an attempt to violate the oldest most important instruction god ever issued - that is if one would consider that god would have communicated the absolute essentials FIRST before any lesser commandments. "Therefore a man shall leave his father & mother & be joined to his wife, & they shall become one flesh." - the first order given - (genesis 2:24)

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12-09-2003, 06:18 PM	#2
Doctor X Banned Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: USA Posts: 3,794	There was an attempt at a variety show back in the '70s, but it never caught on. Anyways, there is always a problem treating myth as reality. --J.D.

12-09-2003, 09:18 PM	#3
ms tree Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: oklahoma, usa Posts: 85	70s show! very good, dr x seriously, it's been one of those questions i have had for a long time yet no one around here will talk about it. i am really curious & wondered if this had ever been discussed - well, that anyone knew of - or why not. surely i can't be the first one to ask such a question - can i?

12-09-2003, 10:22 PM	#4
rlogan Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Alaska Posts: 9,159	Hi MS Tree. You had more than one question that I might paraphrase - is Genesis a slice of the B.S. Bible pie? Yup. There are several threads you can look for on who wrote the pentateuch, the creation myth, what preachers don't want you to know, who wrote the Bible, and the like. There's been plenty on that and Dr. X is pointing out that the whole thing is a myth - so don't get too wrapped up in it not being consistent. Peter Pan's wings are not large enough to support his weight. But what's the point of harping on it? Its a fairy tale. I seem to recall that one school of thought is that Genesis was written during/after the Babylonian captivity and that is why we observe the Babylonian stories of creation and flood in Genesis. It is also why it appears "slapped on" to the front of the bible without any coherent referencing to it in the "later" books that were actually written before hand.

12-10-2003, 03:43 PM	#5
Doctor X Banned Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: USA Posts: 3,794	Friedman in has Who Wrote the Bible? argues for a pre-exilic dating of the primary authors--J and E and even P. He notes the use of Babylonian/Sumerian myth, but does not account for it. I will look to see if there is an explanation for it. The use of Babylonian/Sumerian myth suggests a post-exilic date. --J.D.

12-10-2003, 03:51 PM	#6
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	As an aside, for an entertaining read, and an interesting twist on the story, try Mark Twain's The Diaries of Adam and Eve. Thoroughly enjoyable. Edited Amazon URL - MD

12-10-2003, 04:55 PM	#7
ms tree Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: oklahoma, usa Posts: 85	thanx everyone. no worries - i know it's all fairy tales. i appreciate the info & the link. what i was attempting to say was that it seemed as tho the BEST voice for the whole thing - creation & what god was like, said, etc. - would have been the voice of the first two people rather than the others that came later. my thought was that the first two would have had a much better claim to 'authority' than anyone else. perhaps it is a lame question. oh, well - anyway, i think the biblers miss out on a grand opportunity!

12-10-2003, 05:12 PM	#8
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	Well, seeing as Adam was given the duty of naming every "living creature", I suspect he was kept busy every waking hour for the whole 800 years or so with this daunting task.

12-10-2003, 06:44 PM	#10
offa Regular Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Monroeville, Ohio, USA Posts: 440	the animals he named were humans and he was setting up a caste system. if you lived outside his tiny little world you were not living. if you believe in GOD you have everlasting life and if you do not believe, then you are dead. a corpse. An evangelist brings you from the dead. myself, I like being dead.

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