EthnAlln

I haven't read the other 300-odd answers here, so I may be repeating objections already made more forcefully by others. But let me take the points a few at a time: As for 1--5, I don't see anything supernatural about them. They are plausibly historical, but not in the nature of "established historical facts," since we can't cross-check them. Number 6 is more doubtful. When these people (like Paul) testified, they were no longer skeptics and doubters.

Numbers 7--9 sound like the best argument for Mormonism and Islam I've ever read. Mormonism and Islam, by the way, are both making more converts than Christianity these days. You might want to consider them if you find these arguments persuasive.

By the logic of number 10, Archimedes must have been raised from the dead. We have his tomb (in fact, three of them), and they are all empty. No one has ever produced the corpse.

JEST2ASK

I am quite puzzeled by this entire discourse ... The Title as an error to begin with Ten Biblical Claims would be more accurate unless of couse there exists crediable NON-biblical confirmation ... not simply verifcation that believer X heard from believer Y and passed this on to believer Z whose writtings we now have widely accepted copies of the orginals ... or personage A whose appears in the biblical record is documented to have existed in been in city B during the time detailed in the biblical record ...

Please produce any documentation that confirms any aspect of the trails(s) from the views of the Jewish council (surely at some point there would have been one insider who had a change of heart after hearing of the resurection what about Nicodemus whom (Gospel) John has helping to take the body down from the cross) , Roman records (Pilate's letters would be nice, or something from his wife who Matthew states had dreams and visions regarding the trial) or from Herod's court ...such as confirmation of Luke 23:12That Herod and Pilate becames friends ....

I have no problem with you stating you believe the biblical record ... I do have major problems with you presenting your beliefs as facts widely accepted and confirmed, by dispassionate (even hostile) sources ...

ETA excellant point Gamera thanks

JEST2ASK

I have often heard # 7 given as somehow being significant ... yet I have never seen any documentaion that it is in fact true ... perhaps Richbee can provide us with the "factual" basis for this ... and later he can address the question EthnAlln raises ...:devil3:

Jedi Mind Trick

And God created the universe with apparent age and also made it appear that man evolved from a common ancestor of apes… all this in contradiction with his word.

I used to entertain the notion, as my faith was falling apart, that God created the universe in such a way as to contradict his word for purpose of testing faith... Man! I am glad I don't need to jump through hoops anymore.

EthnAlln

Yeah, that was my last-ditch attempt to save my faith also. I would argue that if there were actual evidence for Christianity, we wouldn't have the freedom of the will needed to make the kind of decision God wanted.

CS Lewis used to argue that way. Ironically, he also argued in many places that God inflicts all the horrendous suffering we see in order to call us to repentance and make us realize our need for him. So that's what freedom of the will amounts to....the freedom to surrender to torture. Yup, that's freedom all right...

Toto

Habermas is an apologist, not a disinterested scholar. His survey seems to be primarily of theologians, not historians or text critics, and he admits that it tends to break down along party lines. He also groups those who think there was a spiritual but not a bodily resurrection along with those who think that Jesus rose bodily from the grave in violation of the laws of nature as moderates.

But I just skimmed the article, and I didn't notice any particular support for your position on the dating of the gospels.

JEST2ASK

I am surprised your head did not exploded after posting that ... MODs please do not take that as a personal attack against Richbee ... it is just that I have no other way to express my sense of irony ... Regardless of a believers disire to the contrary reality does not bend to their wishes ... but I am sure they feel the same way about non-believers ... :huh:

dongiovanni1976x

:notworthy: That, or he runs away and never replies (see thread: Farrell Till Embarrasses Prophecy Buffs)

Jack the Bodiless

Because you STILL don't get it:

Only ONE of the ten points in your original post is a historical fact: that nobody has produced the corpse of Jesus.

It is NOT A FACT that Jesus died by crucifixion 2,000 years ago (though this one almost qualifies, as many non-Christian historians will grant this).

It is NOT A FACT that Jesus was then placed in a tomb.

It is NOT A FACT that a few days later, the tomb was found empty.

It is NOT A FACT that soon after, the Apostles began testifying that Jesus had risen from the dead.

It is NOT A FACT that he Apostles really believed they had seen Jesus alive again.

It is NOT A FACT that even opponents and skeptics of Christianity at the time claimed to have seen Jesus alive again, and their lives were transformed as a consequence.

It is NOT A FACT that almost all of the Apostles eventually died for their testimony that they had seen the resurrected Jesus.

It is NOT A FACT that in the face of brutal persecution, the movement of Christianity grew beyond all reasonable expectation.

It is NOT A FACT that the belief that Jesus was physically raised from the dead was central and foundational to Christianity from the very beginning.

Vivisector

Wow, this guy is a prophet. I'm wondering now about those secondary and tertiary significations ... immediate, near and long term fulfillments ... literal and metaphorical fulfillments. Oh well, I'm sure they'll be clear after they happen.