Magus55

Not according to the Greek. The Greek is apagchomai which means to hang one's self to death.

Magus55

They are quite reconcilable. Atheists may not agree with the explanation, but what else is new?

Magus55

Not to mention before Christ physically sets foot on Earth, millions of Christians will disappear, and the world will go into total Chaos with water turning to blood, the sun going dark, and half the world's population dying off. I don't quite think thats happened yet.

(For the record, judge is a preterist)

Magus55

I agreed with you Mageth ( wow, what a change! ) up until this point. They are quite easily reconciled, although I realize you don't accept the explanation. Matthew specifically states that Judas died by hanging. Acts never said he died by falling on the rocks. It merely said his body had hit the rocks. Matthew may have seen him actually hang himself, where as Luke may have showed up after the hanging, and found the body on the ground ( probably from the weight of the body breaking the branch or rope). Its still an accurate description, its just view points from 2 different points of time. The actual death, and later after the death.

Gregg

No, please, reconcile them for us. Let's hear your explanation. It's not true that we'll disagree just because we're atheists. Most likely we'll disagree because your explanation will make no sense.

doubtingthomas

To believe that you'd have to against the contextual evidence.

Matthew 24


Signs of the End of the Age

1Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2"Do you see all these things?" he asked. "I tell you the truth, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down."
3As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?"
4Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,[1] ' and will deceive many. 6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of birth pains.
9"Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
15"So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,'[2] spoken of through the prophet Daniel--let the reader understand-- 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let no one on the roof of his house go down to take anything out of the house. 18Let no one in the field go back to get his cloak. 19How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now--and never to be equaled again. 22If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it. 24For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect--if that were possible. 25See, I have told you ahead of time.
26"So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the desert,' do not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it. 27For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.
29"Immediately after the distress of those days
" 'the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'[3]
30"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
32"Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[4] is near, right at the door. 34I tell you the truth, this generation[5] will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

The disciples ask jesus to answer their questions and Jesus addresses the answers to them specifically, there is no sign that he is talking about a future people. In fact nothing in the whole of nt prophecy points to events that are supposed to be fulfilled 2000 years into the future. It is clear after even a cursory reading of the nt that people expected Jesus to return soon.

Now of course the apostles had no need to tell themselves that they would see Jesus' coming; the reason they wrote the scriptures down was to spread the message to the world - not to remind themselves.

You seem to be reading the bible in light of your current understanding, and not trying to understand the context of it.

Magus55

You're assuming he actually fell headlong while alive. Luke may have just seen his body and assumed thats how he died, so he stated that Judas fell. That wouldn't be a contradiction, its just 2 different viewpoints. Although I still don't think Luke meant that he actually died that way, but we would have to see the original text to conclude that, which isn't really possible. Either way, its not a contradiction.

Magus55

So why do you keep doing it when you know we aren't gonna accept your viewpoint?

Gullwind

How, exactly, does this refer to a generation in some distant future? The context (verse 24) is Jesus speaking directly to his disciples.

doubtingthomas

Im not sure if this was Magus' line of argument concerning this verse, but most apologists claim this was refering to the transfiguration.