Half-Life

why did so many people start to believe them?

if you read the acts of the apostles, you will clearly say that with each little new miracle the apostles were doing, and each time they preached to the crowd, it says "and more followers were added to them that day."

It even speaks of the apostles coming before the SANHEDRIN and the Sanhedrin ADMITTING that they did miracles and they threw them in jail and the Holy spirit came and opened the door of the jail and they were back in the streets.

The Sanhedrin was perplexed and didn't know what to do.

There was even a verse in the Acts which states that the Sanhedrin talked in secret and said to one another "What are we to do, for we see these miracles. We can not have them preach in Jesus' name anymore."

So, if it's very clear that the Sanhedrin did NOT like Christianity, why would they have written about it in any historical documents? They wanted to see this religion FADE AWAY as quickly as possible. So, what would their reason be for writing it down as historical evidence for future generations to follow?

Also, if these stories were made up and the apostles really didn't gain more followers daily, how then did people start believing it? Surely the people who read these books during the time they were written must have thought "LOL! There are no such apostles around doing miracles. Where are the followers?"

And the religion would've been squashed.

But this didn't happen. Why not?

GenesisNemesis

Something doesn't have to be historical for someone to believe in it.

WishboneDawn

Half-life - why not spend some time looking at some different forms of christianity? You sound like you're coming out of a fundamentalist, inerrant tradition. Wander around religioustolerance.org for a bit and explore some moderate or liberal christian thought. I'm not trying to get you back into the club, it just might help you out a bit.

funinspace

"But this didn't happen. Why not?" -- Why did Joseph Smith's new religion grow in the face of solid public information on it's quackery? Why did 12 men attest that his miracles were real? Why is it one of the fastest growing faiths in North America? Answer this, and then you might be able to see one's skepticism on the very foggy "history" of 2,000 years ago.

Johnny Skeptic

We do not know how many people believed them. In 'The Rise of Christianity,' Rodney Stark estimates that there were only 7,530 Christians in the entire world in 100 A.D. In chapter one, he quotes many expert sources regarding many different kinds of evidence, including archaeological and papyrological evidence. Even if the correct number was closer to 25,000 Christians in the entire word in 100 A.D. that would not have been a lot of Christians.

If a God exists, and wants people to believe that he can perform miracles, why doesn't he show up tangibly, in person, and perform miracles all over the world?

BMD

Simply, I think you are assuming that the Bible is 100% accurate history and you are discounting the rise of of many other religions that you would dismiss as easily as you accept the stories that you happen to believe.

Iasion

Why did so many people believe Sherlock Holmes was historical?

Why did so many people believe Perry Mason was historical?


Iasion

Toto

How do you know anyone did?

And where are all these people? Why isn't there some record of the Jesus movement outside of what later Christians wrote?

This was a typical scenario in Greco-Roman theater - angels or spirits or conveniently timed earthquakes let people of of jail.

Did you notice that, in fact, the Sanhedrin did not write anything down about Jesus? There are no records, no Jewish side of the story.

The books were probably not written until much later, when no one could check the facts.

Have you read Rodney Stark's Rise of Christianity (or via: amazon.co.uk) or any books on the sociology of religion? People are converted to new religions through social contacts, not through logic or observation. There are thriving religions today based on outright science fiction or discredited forgeries.

spin

Belief is not predicated on reality. Why did so many people believe in Zeus? Despite Zarathustra's revision of Mazdaism, why did so many people continue to believe in Mithras?

You'll have difficulty with this idea, but when was Acts really written? You will unthinkingly say that it was written by the Luke that Paul knew so it must have been written in the middle of the 1st century CE, but there are vast problems with dating Acts, as it is a complex work which evinces various layers of writing from several sources including the book of the apostles, the book of Paul, the "we" passages and the "believing" interpolations. It wasn't written by a single person, it may have been put into the basic current form by one person. When was it first clearly cited?

When this sanhedrin is in your text you can make the sanhedrin say whatever you like. This is not independent witness.

And do you honestly think that this was said by the sanhedrin rather than surmised to be what the sanhedrin should have said, if they had your perspective?

The sanhedrin was a religious organization and its members had their Jewish faith. Do you really think that these people were going to put aside their beliefs to make such comments as you would like them to have done? You wouldn't do such a thing, would you? So why expect that they would?

The age of miracles is conveniently long ago, so you can happily look back to the golden age and ascribe the lack of modern miracles to this godless age.

If we are to believe the miracles ascribed to Jesus in the gospels, then it would be nearly impossible to suppress such real acts.

The first proselytes that we know about are those made by Paul amongst the goyim. Those recounted in Acts never escaped Acts into the real world.

The books were written after there were followers, by communities that supported the writing. Paul set up communities through Anatolia and Greece.

The ancient world didn't have the education that we have today. In fact it had almost no education. One believed what they learnt from their elders. Logic wasn't a high priority, as very few people understood it. Aristotle was first to set down the notion of the syllogism and it took centuries for logicians to develop the sorts of tools that we partially apply today and take for granted. Even today people can abnegate all responsibility to be logical and turn to scientology, new age mumbo jumbo, and a hoard of other lunacies.

The quality of the content doesn't seem to be important.


spin

Johnny Skeptic

Yes, in 'The Rise of Christianity,' Rodney Stark says:

Of particular note is "Thus while membership was expensive, it was, in fact, a bargain."