Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Philadelphia Lawyer · 09-09-2005, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magus55

And He gained what? Would you leave paradise to be treated like absolute dirt, live in poverty, and be tortured in one of the worst ways imaginable?

What did he gain? He is worshipped all over the world. He's got churches and statues built to him on every continent. He is probably the most famous "person" who ever lived.

And, how do you figure he was "treated like absolute dirt"? Wasn't he a carpenter's "son"? He wasn't a slave. He wasn't a field hand. Lots of people endure more "poverty" everyday, even in today's world, than he did in his whole "life". And I see we're back to the torture again. Well, what of it? Lots of people have been tortured, some worse than Jesus (as even you admit). Many of them endured it without "cracking" and betraying their friends and comrades. And again, as mere humans, they couldn't take comfort in the knowledge that it would all be over in a few short hours and they would be back up in heaven.

Quote:

For a perfect and righteous being, living in poverty among sinners who hate you probably wasn't a picnic.

Boo hoo. Poor Jesus, he had to live among us sinners for 30 years out of eternity. You're breaking my heart. As for people "hating" him, how long did that last, 2,3 years at most? Once again, plenty of us mere humans endure a lifetime of being hated, often for no good reason.

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I haven't met too many people that would go through what Jesus went through to save a killer or rapist or thief etc., let alone billions of people who have sinned (not necessarily killers or thieves, but nonetheless sinners).

People have gone through what Jesus went through, and worse, to save their country, which certainly includes killers and rapists, as well as ordinary "sinners."

No matter how you cut it, Jesus' task was no big deal. From the dawn of time to 1 CE, he's hanging out in heaven; 1 CE to 30 CE, he's living a more or less average human existence (no dire poverty, no slavery, most people don't hate him or even know him); 30 CE to 33 CE, he's roaming around the country with his friends, performing magic tricks, entertaining large crowds, becoming a star, then, he has a rough couple of days; finally, 33 CE to the end of time, he's back up in heaven, while being worshipped down here on Earth. I think quite a lot of people would prefer Jesus' life to their own.

Toto · 09-09-2005, 11:28 PM

moved to GRD - no Biblical Criticism in sight.

lpetrich · 09-09-2005, 11:35 PM

And there are ways of dying even more gory than crucifixion, like "scaphismus" or "the boats" or "boating", as described by Plutarch in his Life of Artaxerxes:

The victim is spread-eagled and sandwiched between two boats, facing upwards. The top boat gets a hole cut in it for supplying him with food, including milk and honey poured on his face. He ends up attracting flies, whose maggots then proceed to feast on him. Mithridates, executed in this fashion, took 17 days to die.

A resurrection after that sort of death would be a big miracle.

Compared to "the boats", crucifixion seems almost merciful by comparison; especially the quick death described in the Gospels.

DaMan121 · 09-09-2005, 11:52 PM

Quote:

For a perfect and righteous being, living in poverty among sinners who hate you probably wasn't a picnic.

:rolling:

Hyndis · 09-10-2005, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philadelphia Lawyer

Boo hoo. Poor Jesus, he had to live among us sinners for 30 years out of eternity. You're breaking my heart. As for people "hating" him, how long did that last, 2,3 years at most? Once again, plenty of us mere humans endure a lifetime of being hated, often for no good reason.

Hmm...so, as we all know, GBLT folks aren't quite the most loved people on the planet. I'd say a few billion people actively hate me right now at this very moment. If they could, they'd do very bad things to me. Luckily, most of them are far away, and I'm good at hiding. But still, having a few billion people hate me is, err...

Does this mean that if I die from some particularly nasty form of cancer, which can take many years of massive pain to kill a person, that I'm god?

I've been despised for my entire live AND would've died in a painful way. Can I start my own religion now?

Mujahid_Munafiq · 09-10-2005, 04:31 PM

And besides, if Jesus was the "son of God", I think he would be "man" enough to take all this **** they did to him.

IvanJames · 09-10-2005, 05:30 PM

I've read that the typical crucifiction victim took 3 days to die, and this guy cops out in 3 (or was it six?) hours. I'm not impressed.

Illusionist · 09-10-2005, 05:32 PM

hah

me neither!

Illusionist · 09-10-2005, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magus55

Of course, Him going to Heaven after death takes away nothing from His sacrifice since He was there to begin with. Jesus leaving Heaven to come to Earth, take on human form and suffer as a human for 30 years, only to be tortured in one of the worst possible ways ever devised by humanity by the people that he came to save in the first place is far more significant than you can ever comprehend. Of course you don't see it as a sacrifice, you would never voluntarily put yourself in that position.

that is exactly the type of guilt trip that im talking about. It doesnt work. He went to paradise right after. So he spent 3 days in hell apparently, probably just visitng with Satan, anyway

. I mean, would Satan dare torture god in the flesh? i dont think so.
If you were to tell me that Jesus went to hell to suffer eternally for my sins, THEN i might feel guilty enough.

Mujahid_Munafiq · 09-10-2005, 06:06 PM

Jesus and Satan are great friends. They even went mountainclimbing together.

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09-09-2005, 11:28 PM	#12
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	moved to GRD - no Biblical Criticism in sight.

09-09-2005, 11:35 PM	#13
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	And there are ways of dying even more gory than crucifixion, like "scaphismus" or "the boats" or "boating", as described by Plutarch in his Life of Artaxerxes: The victim is spread-eagled and sandwiched between two boats, facing upwards. The top boat gets a hole cut in it for supplying him with food, including milk and honey poured on his face. He ends up attracting flies, whose maggots then proceed to feast on him. Mithridates, executed in this fashion, took 17 days to die. A resurrection after that sort of death would be a big miracle. Compared to "the boats", crucifixion seems almost merciful by comparison; especially the quick death described in the Gospels.

09-10-2005, 04:31 PM	#16
Mujahid_Munafiq Regular Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: San Ramon, California Posts: 359	And besides, if Jesus was the "son of God", I think he would be "man" enough to take all this **** they did to him.

09-10-2005, 05:30 PM	#17
IvanJames Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 393	I've read that the typical crucifiction victim took 3 days to die, and this guy cops out in 3 (or was it six?) hours. I'm not impressed.

09-10-2005, 05:32 PM	#18
Illusionist Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Michigan Posts: 117	hah me neither!

09-10-2005, 06:06 PM	#20
Mujahid_Munafiq Regular Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: San Ramon, California Posts: 359	Jesus and Satan are great friends. They even went mountainclimbing together.

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