Freethought & Rationalism Archive

lee_merrill · 02-27-2007, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by show_no_mercy

A Christian friend of mine said that this wouldn't shake the Christian faith because "we don't know what happened after he ascended to heaven. He could have came back down to earth and then died".

Well no, Scripture does say clearly he will not die again, see Revelation (chapter 1, I think) and Romans 6, for instance.

stuart shepherd · 02-27-2007, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtheosRiktØr489

I'd need some damn good evidence to convince me that it's THE Jesus.

.

Right on!
The evidence should be as good as the evidence that Jesus was resurrected.

Stuart Shepherd:huh:

modernPrimitive · 02-27-2007, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lee_merrill

Some other possibilities:

1) People took on names of people they admired, and the probability of families with some of these names within Christian circles increased, as similarly, John is one of the most common names in Western culture. As also similarly, I expect there are a good many Hispanic families with members variously named Jesus, Jose, Maria, and so on.

2) Some 1st-century skeptics (2nd/3rd/... century?) produced an ossuary-box to overturn the Christian faith (hoaxes didn't start in the 20th century). I don't suppose any such skeptics would want to do that?

But certainly it's best to see if the box is indeed genuine, it seems they're getting some practice in evaluating ossuaries.

What are the chances of 1) in terms of the entire family - in other words Joseph's mother had to name him such, Mary's mother, Mary Magdalene's mother all pretty much within a single lifetime of the death of Jesus etc etc. It is far more likely with your theory that we would have had a "Jesus son of Jesus and Mary". What about "Mary Magdalene" - how common is that for a name?

The bizarre thing is that the marriage between Jesus and Mary Magdalene has been suggested by many proponents of esoteric tradition and as you know from the Da Vinci code. Sure, the Da Vince code misrepresents many facts, such as the fact that the "secret" was essentially not physically Mary Magdalene but rather the feminine "Godess" aspect. It has long been held in esoteric circles that the common Christian interpretation simply cannot be correct because it does not fit into what is spiritually or physically possible even by the highest spiritual adpets. Wonder if people want to rethink The Last Supper by Da Vinci?

modernPrimitive · 02-27-2007, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuart shepherd

Right on!
The evidence should be as good as the evidence that Jesus was resurrected.

Stuart Shepherd:huh:

What evidence was that?

stuart shepherd · 02-27-2007, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by douglas

I'm confused about a couple details surrounding these ossuaries.

First, I understand an ossuary to be a box full of bones. It takes a certain amount of time for a body to decay so that only bones remain. Is it fair to assume that these bodies were placed somewhere during this decaying process, the bones were then placed in the box, and the box was moved to a family crypt. Is this the way it worked?

Secondly, would it be odd for Jesus and his family to have a tomb in Jerusalem when they were actually from Nazareth?

Have you ever heard of a poor evangelist? Ask Billy Graham, Pat Robertson, James Dobson, etc

When Jesus started turning a couple of fish and several loafs of bread into baskets of cash, his family moved to a mansion in Jerusalem.

Stuart Shepherd

stuart shepherd · 02-27-2007, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilVaz

There's actually a novel on this subject written over 10 years ago by Christian historian Paul Maier, A Skeleton in God's Closet (or via: amazon.co.uk). Would make a good movie. Apparently James Cameron is serious, he should just use the fictional version by Maier, and for the screenplay change the names on some of the tombs. Now merge threads!

Phil P

Actually there already is a movie about finding Jesus' tomb. I think the movie was called "The Body" and starred Antonio Bandaras.
In the movie a Jewish archeological team finds a tomb which is Jesus' tomb or so it seems. Antonio Bandaras is a priest sent by the Vatican to investigate. Of course he is skeptical, but as he keeps investigating the evidence keeps showing that the tomb is legitimate. But Jewish and Muslim interests intervene and they along with the vatican all want the tomb to be a phoney. At the end of the movie there is some slight of hand which leaves the viewer not sure if the tomb is legitimate and the special interests have faked evidence or if the tomb is really illegitimate or legitimate. You just don't know.
Good Movie

Stuart Shepherd

stuart shepherd · 02-27-2007, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by modernPrimitive

What evidence was that?

Why the empty tomb of course.

Stuart Shepherd

Koyaanisqatsi · 02-27-2007, 12:29 PM

I have faith that this is Jesus' coffin.

PhilVaz · 02-27-2007, 12:33 PM

Stu << Actually there already is a movie about finding Jesus' tomb. I think the movie was called "The Body" and starred Antonio Bandaras. In the movie a Jewish archeological team finds a tomb which is Jesus' tomb or so it seems. >>

Ah thanks I'll have to check. I think I remember that. But its not based on Paul Maier's novel?

The Body (2001), available on DVD

Phil P

modernPrimitive · 02-27-2007, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuart shepherd

Why the empty tomb of course.

Stuart Shepherd

Ummm..an empty tomb is only proof of well.....an empty tomb

- of course provided that you've seen it with your own eyes or read about it from a trustworthy source....

02-27-2007, 12:33 PM	#69
PhilVaz Regular Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: St. Pete FL Posts: 216	The Body DVD Stu << Actually there already is a movie about finding Jesus' tomb. I think the movie was called "The Body" and starred Antonio Bandaras. In the movie a Jewish archeological team finds a tomb which is Jesus' tomb or so it seems. >> Ah thanks I'll have to check. I think I remember that. But its not based on Paul Maier's novel? The Body (2001), available on DVD Phil P

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02-27-2007, 12:29 PM	#68
Koyaanisqatsi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Yes, I have dyslexia. Sue me. Posts: 6,508	I have faith that this is Jesus' coffin.

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