FRDB Archives

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.


Go Back   FRDB Archives > Archives > Religion (Closed) > Biblical Criticism & History
Welcome, Peter Kirby.
You last visited: Yesterday at 03:12 PM

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-26-2009, 06:30 PM   #1
Contributor
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Los Angeles area
Posts: 40,549
Default Historical Jesus vs Confessional Christ (yet another Jesus book)

The Historical Christ and the Theological Jesus (or via: amazon.co.uk) by Dale Alison, previewed on Google books

There is a review in First Things: The quest for the confessional Jesus

Quote:
Christians have had good reason to be suspicious of the quest for the historical Jesus. From the deists of the Enlightenment to modern-day writers such as Robert Funk, the movement has always had anticlerical and antiorthodox tendencies. . . .

A number of excellent insights emerge over the course of the book. Allison warns us to be wary of “truths” that the guild of New Testament scholars claims to have established. “The biblical guild,” Allison writes, “is not a group-mind thinking the same thoughts. Nor are experts a single company producing a single product.” The results of Jesus research are extraordinarily varied whether we consider them across the centuries or even in our present day. The bon mot of Chesterton applies quite well: “There is no history: There are only historians.”
Toto is offline  
Old 10-26-2009, 07:13 PM   #2
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Mondcivitan Republic
Posts: 2,550
Default

Good ol' Dale Allison.

As some may recall, I once heard that he "demolished" Bart Ehrman "point by point" in a journal article published in response to one of Ehrman's earlier journal articles. I heard this, to boot, from a person well known in the world of rhetorical criticism.

To determine just how much he really demolished Ehrman, I checked out both the journal articles and compared them stylistically as well as by the points made by Ehrman and how, or whether, Allison dealt with them.

I must admit Allison seemed to have a milder, and a bit more appealing, style then Ehrman, who was more brash and self confident. He competently turned Ehrman's brashness against him, and so in rhetorical points, I gave the debate to Allison. However, Allison basically left much of what Ehrman asserted unaddressed, and what he did confront wasn't demolished by any means, simple countered by solutions less offensive to the faith community.

In my ever vigilant, and ever unsuccessful, campaign against "advocacy scholarship," I have many times noted that scholars, both amateur and professional, time and again find ways to "prove" what they want to believe. It is not just "moderates" like Ben Witherington III, James Dunn, John P. Meier or Dale Allison, but "liberals" like Burton Mack and John Dominic Crossan. I don't think it is even necessary to mention the fundamentalist conservative "scholars" whose knowledge of Biblical Greek and Hebrew is often unsurpassed but who "interpret" the Bible by the Bible and little else. History and context is only used to illustrate the message they take from the Bible, for it certainly does not or can not supersede it in any way, or the world will end today.

That's the kind of scholarship Allison represents. If you can't beat them (liberal scholars), scorn them ...

DCH

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toto View Post
The Historical Christ and the Theological Jesus (or via: amazon.co.uk) by Dale Alison, previewed on Google books

There is a review in First Things: The quest for the confessional Jesus

Quote:
Christians have had good reason to be suspicious of the quest for the historical Jesus. From the deists of the Enlightenment to modern-day writers such as Robert Funk, the movement has always had anticlerical and antiorthodox tendencies. . . .

A number of excellent insights emerge over the course of the book. Allison warns us to be wary of “truths” that the guild of New Testament scholars claims to have established. “The biblical guild,” Allison writes, “is not a group-mind thinking the same thoughts. Nor are experts a single company producing a single product.” The results of Jesus research are extraordinarily varied whether we consider them across the centuries or even in our present day. The bon mot of Chesterton applies quite well: “There is no history: There are only historians.”
DCHindley is offline  
Old 10-26-2009, 07:45 PM   #3
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Pua, in northern Thailand
Posts: 2,823
Default

Good points, DC. What I would like to see published is an account of all the hypotheses regarding the historical Jesus, with a surveyed statement of what percentage of Biblical and historical scholars support each one. Knowing the prejudices of the scholars would help, too, but that may be asking for too much.
Joan of Bark is offline  
Old 10-27-2009, 10:49 AM   #4
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: N/A
Posts: 4,370
Default

The best thing to do with these "Jesus books" is list them, and their blurbs.

Read down the list, all the blurbs. It will cure you for life of the approach they all take.
Roger Pearse is offline  
Old 10-28-2009, 09:54 PM   #5
Regular Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 320
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Pearse View Post
The best thing to do with these "Jesus books" is list them, and their blurbs.

Read down the list, all the blurbs. It will cure you for life of the approach they all take.
Imagine the blurb for the Bible.
Zaphod is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:51 AM.

Top

This custom BB emulates vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.