Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Zenaphobe · 05-04-2010, 11:41 AM

I just came across Michael Wood's The Unhidden Bible web page http://theunhiddenbible.org/ and it says Bible translators had purposefully mistranslated the Hebrew word emuwnah in Habakkuk 2:4 to faith, instead of faithfulness as it is translated in 48 other passages.

Was the Reformation sparked by a mistranslation? Does anyone know enough Hebrew to explain why the word ought to be translated as faith in just one out of 49 usages?

Thanks.

Toto · 05-04-2010, 12:17 PM

The issue seems to be how Paul or the author of Hebrews translated that verse. Two of the Pauline epistles and Hebrews quote that verse, as if it refered to faith in Jesus. (Romans 1:16-17, Galatians 3:11, Hebrews 10:38-39) The charge is that Paul misinterpreted the Hebrew Scriptures. Luther added his own theological stance.

From here

Quote:

Again and again, Paul quotes from the Old Testament, and takes it totally out of context. Take, for instance, "The just shall live by faith" (Romans 1:17). This is a quote of Habakkuk 2:4. Paul uses that verse in reference to the gospel of Christ and salvation, but Habakkuk's book has nothing to do with eternal salvation or the story of Jesus. Rather, Habakkuk deals with faithfulness in living for God in spite of the Babylonian captivity. (The word translated "faith" is commonly translated "faithfulness", and this appears to be the meaning even in Habakkuk.) Habakkuk doesn't ever hint that he is speaking of saving faith in a dying Son of God for eternal life. He is speaking of the just remaining faithful in spite of adversity. Paul quotes Habakkuk, but Habakkuk does not mean what Paul uses the phrase to mean. This is just one example of Paul's perversion of the Old Testament.

There is more on the Hebrew meaning here: “Emunah” in Habakkuk 2:4 (scroll down to that section)

The concepts in the Bible appear to me to be quite fuzzy, based around intuitive right brained emotional experiences. When you try to analyze them logically, you get into serious trouble, and then people start wars and religious schisms over what they "mean." IMHO

Zenaphobe · 05-04-2010, 01:27 PM

Thanks Toto, that sounds like a reasonable possibility as far as Paul is concerned.

I see similar tinkering in Paul's usage of "seed" in Galatians to indicate a singular person (Christ) as opposed to the collective decedents of Abraham.

I wonder what translation of the Hebrew scriptures were used by Paul/Hebrews, and if the misuse was conscious or the result of ignorance of the Hebrew language?

We have fuzzy math, why not fuzzy theology.

show_no_mercy · 05-04-2010, 02:05 PM

The LXX verse that Paul quotes uses almost the same phrasing as Paul does in Rom 1:17.

Hab 2:4 LXX

ο δε δικαιος εκ πιστεως μου ζησεται

Rom 1:17

ο δε δικαιος εκ πιστεως ζησεται

Similarly, one of the scariest quotes Christians like to cite all of the time uttered by Paul uses the same word:

2 Cor 5:7

δια πιστεως γαρ περιπατουμεν ου δια ειδους

By faith we walk, not by sight

It looks as though the LXX (which Paul used, because he couldn't read Hebrew) has the word "faith". IIRC Martin Luther added the word "alone" to the end of this verse in his version of Romans.

XOVER · 05-21-2010, 05:11 PM

So Luther's Protestantism is one big sham, built upon mistranslations of the Torah?

Zenaphobe · 05-21-2010, 05:16 PM

It appears it could very well be the case. No one has offered an explanation as to why this one verse should have the word translated as anything other than "faithfulness".

XOVER · 05-21-2010, 08:17 PM

How critical was Habakkuk 2:4 to Luther's theology?

And you've got Calvin out there too ...

Zenaphobe · 05-22-2010, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XOVER

How critical was Habakkuk 2:4 to Luther's theology?

And you've got Calvin out there too ...

Luther said,

Quote:

Night and day I pondered until I saw the connection between the righteousness of God and the statement that "the just shall live by his faith" (Rom. 1:17). Then I grasped that the justice of God is that righteousness by which through grace and sheer mercy God justifies us through faith. Thereupon I felt myself reborn and to have gone through open doors into paradise. The whole of Scripture took on a different meaning, and whereas before the "justice of God" had filled me with hate, now it became to me inexpressibly sweet in great love. This passage of Paul became to me a gate to heaven.

http://books.google.com/books?id=NFb...th.%22&f=false

It seems this verse was pretty important in Luther's sudden insight into his new understanding of salvation.

I'm not sure that Calvin opposed any of Luther's positions on salvation by faith, but I could be wrong.

brianscott1977 · 05-22-2010, 07:52 AM

The Hebrew word used in Habakkuk 2:4 is most naturally translated, “in firmness” or “by faithfulness,” though “by faith” is a valid translation.

In context, I don’t know what the difference is between the statements, “The righteous will by faith,” and, “The righteous will live by faithfulness.”

These phrases seem to say the same thing. It is more an issue of style than substance.

Toto · 05-22-2010, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zenaphobe

... <google books>

....

The reference is to Here I Stand: A Life of Martin Luther (or via: amazon.co.uk) by Roland Bainton if the deep link into google books fails.

05-04-2010, 11:41 AM	#1
Zenaphobe Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: In the NC trailer park Posts: 6,631	Did Martin Luther's theology stem from a mistranslation of Habakkuk 2:4? I just came across Michael Wood's The Unhidden Bible web page http://theunhiddenbible.org/ and it says Bible translators had purposefully mistranslated the Hebrew word emuwnah in Habakkuk 2:4 to faith, instead of faithfulness as it is translated in 48 other passages. Was the Reformation sparked by a mistranslation? Does anyone know enough Hebrew to explain why the word ought to be translated as faith in just one out of 49 usages? Thanks.

05-04-2010, 02:05 PM	#4
show_no_mercy Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Dancing Posts: 9,940	The LXX verse that Paul quotes uses almost the same phrasing as Paul does in Rom 1:17. Hab 2:4 LXX ο δε δικαιος εκ πιστεως μου ζησεται Rom 1:17 ο δε δικαιος εκ πιστεως ζησεται Similarly, one of the scariest quotes Christians like to cite all of the time uttered by Paul uses the same word: 2 Cor 5:7 δια πιστεως γαρ περιπατουμεν ου δια ειδους By faith we walk, not by sight It looks as though the LXX (which Paul used, because he couldn't read Hebrew) has the word "faith". IIRC Martin Luther added the word "alone" to the end of this verse in his version of Romans.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

05-04-2010, 01:27 PM	#3
Zenaphobe Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: In the NC trailer park Posts: 6,631	Thanks Toto, that sounds like a reasonable possibility as far as Paul is concerned. I see similar tinkering in Paul's usage of "seed" in Galatians to indicate a singular person (Christ) as opposed to the collective decedents of Abraham. I wonder what translation of the Hebrew scriptures were used by Paul/Hebrews, and if the misuse was conscious or the result of ignorance of the Hebrew language? We have fuzzy math, why not fuzzy theology.

05-21-2010, 05:11 PM	#5
XOVER Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: USA Posts: 168	So Luther's Protestantism is one big sham, built upon mistranslations of the Torah?

05-21-2010, 05:16 PM	#6
Zenaphobe Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: In the NC trailer park Posts: 6,631	It appears it could very well be the case. No one has offered an explanation as to why this one verse should have the word translated as anything other than "faithfulness".

05-21-2010, 08:17 PM	#7
XOVER Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: USA Posts: 168	How critical was Habakkuk 2:4 to Luther's theology? And you've got Calvin out there too ...

05-22-2010, 07:52 AM	#9
brianscott1977 Regular Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Midwest, USA Posts: 192	The Hebrew word used in Habakkuk 2:4 is most naturally translated, “in firmness” or “by faithfulness,” though “by faith” is a valid translation. In context, I don’t know what the difference is between the statements, “The righteous will by faith,” and, “The righteous will live by faithfulness.” These phrases seem to say the same thing. It is more an issue of style than substance.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.