Gundulf

What time Paul thought Jesus died? I imagine somewhere in the neighborhood of 29AD, or thereabouts? About 3 in the afternoon?

There must be more to your question, though...

Malachi151

"Now" basically. At this moment (in Paul's time) is the right time, and thus the time that Christ died.

Ben C Smith

Yes, there is.

There is a contingent of mythicists who feel that Jesus died, according to Paul, outside of time and space in some way. If Paul is saying that Jesus died at the right time, that would seem to preclude Jesus having died outside of time, as Niall rightly sees:

(What he means, of course, is that interpreting this within his version, the timeless version, of the MJ theory is a challenge; some MJ theories can swallow the data with a smile.)

Ben.

Clivedurdle

Actually I thought that was mainstream xian theology! It is almost as if there are two (three?) sacrifices, an eternal one, an earthly one and a continuing one in each and every Eucharist.

Why else the doctrine of transubstantiation?

Ben C Smith

When did the seed come?

Ben.

Solo

Evidently, it was given to Paul to plant it. :angel:

Jiri

Agemegos

It has to have been after the death of John the Baptist, which has to be after the marriage of Herod Antipas to Herodias. Josephus dates the death of John the Baptist to AD 36, which allowing for three years of the ministry of Jesus puts the death of Jesus in AD 39. That is, moreover, consistent with Jesus's birth early in Quirinius's governorship of Syria and death at 33.

Unfortunately, Pontius Pilate was only praefect of Judaea until AD 36.

So, depending on which if any of the gospel stories he believed, St Paul might have believed that Jesus died about AD 26–29, definitely before AD 36, or definitely after AD 39. If, that is, he believed that Jesus had died in historical time at all.

Ben C Smith

I think you will find that Josephus does not date the death of John the baptist at all, except to say that it happened under Antipas.

Ben.

Gregg

The problem with the OP is that it sets up something of a strawman. Doherty provides a general description of the worldview he believes the ancients held ... he doesn't claim that all ancients thought exactly and precisely as he describes. Christians such as Paul had their own take on things.

Unlike Greek philosophers who explicitly argued that the Greek myths were expressions of "timeless" spiritual realities, Paul could well have envisioned the crucifixion as happening at some "time" in the past. However, his language is so vague, there is no reason to assume he is talking about some event that took place on Earth in recent history. The crucifixion/resurrection simply took place "at the right time" or "in the fullness of time" -- in other words, exactly when God had scheduled it to happen.

Did Paul hold the view that the crucifixion did not really happen within any framework of time, as some Greek philosophers viewed the pagan myths? Maybe, maybe not. It's hardly clear one way or the other, and it could have been some of both. These were mystics, speaking of spiritual events and processes using language that was developed to describe three-dimensional (plus time) reality. Paul may have believed that the crucifixion/rtesurrection took place within time after a fashion, but he also seems to view it as something timeless. These are spiritual truths and realities; they were pre-ordained, they have always been meant to be. in a sense they have already happened before time began because God has willed it so.

Ben C Smith

Gregg, the OP quotes 3 or 4 verses straight from Paul, then asks a question:

If you can get a strawman out of this, then it is manifest that you do not know what a strawman is. This is a question. Is there any other way to ask it?

Does Doherty allow that Paul may have thought of Jesus having died at some time in the past?

Ben.