cass256

Alright Loomis, you may be sorry you asked.

Several things come to mind. I agree, in opinion, and will shorten Yahweh to YHWH, for speed, and it is written that way in Hebrew anyway.
El in Canaan was basically the Creator of the Earth and the father of the Gods. In everything I can find about El, he was Benevolent. Always. YHWH, on the other hand ,was violent blood and guts god of war that had some good days.

In John, when you try to fit the word Malek with "word" (which is basically the same in idea.. message = word)
you also spoke about the "light".
I have to wonder if this is the same messenger of light Paul was blinded by. Which leads me always to
2 corinthians When you see in the OT that YHWH moved David to number Israel, the same story is told having Satan being the one who provoked David to number Israel. that has always been a stick in my side.
Add that, to the light bearer, Lucifer= morningstar

with Jesus claiming to be the Morning star at the end of Revelations, or giving the morning star in Revelations 2..
Who has gone to heaven and come down to earth and been spit out of the grave? and wanted to be like the "most High" (ELyown)

"6 Deuteronomy 32:8 When the Most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the sons of god.. For (Yahweh's) the LORD's portion is his people; Jacob is the lot of his inheritance"

YaHWeH or Lucifer or Satan? or *****? to be like the most high?

Isaiah 14 Matthew talks about where the carcass is the eagles will gather, and jesus is thrown into OT prophecy as "the branch" as well as the grave not holding him..

If Yeshua was related closely to YHWH, you see the morning Star... which is what the hebrew word for Lucifer translates into in English
from Strong's The last thing of interest. The word translated as I AM. You mentioned Exodus 3:14?

Moses was told by YaHWeH that Hayah was who to tell the Israelites he was sent by. YHWH tells Moses Hayah asher hayah, thell them Hayah has sent you. If you look at the
How do we know he meant

So how to translate IAM who IAM? I create and i ruin? I am who is calamity?


That and lastly YHWH says to moses that Abraham and Jacob didn't know him as YHWH, but as EL Almighty.

Exodus 6:3 the hebrew says by his name "YHWH" was not known to them, but "EL Shadday"

which could obviously mean that the god Abraham knew in Canaan was the benevolent EL, but Moses found Yahweh on the Midian mountain, or Baal..

Pilate

Can you give us some passages from this gospel, which support this hypothesis?

Loomis

Sure. First some background:

As you know, the author of Deuteronomy 32:8-9 says Yahweh was unique because Yahweh was the son of El who inherited the nation of Jacob.

The author of Psalm 89:6 also emphasizes that Yahweh was a unique son of El.

Okay now some gospel:

The author of John 1:14 says a unique son of god became human, and that they saw his glory.

The author of John 12:41 says that Isaiah says something about Christ’s glory.

But Isaiah was talking about Yahweh’s glory.

Yahweh Christ …

Superstar …

Do you think you're what they say you are?

:notworthy :notworthy :notworthy

judge

Well...at the moment I am considering what you say...It will probably take me some time as I am not up to speed on parts of it.

That said we do know that in the Aramaic NT, the peshitta, Jesus is clearly identified as Yahweh. He is said to be Mar Yah, the same designation for Yahweh in the POT IIRC.

This does not come through as clearly in the greek translations, but is clear in the Aramaic.

Don't know if that helps.

Also you may be interested in an online translation of the POT. Now, be warned, the author of this translation has deliberately avoided word for word translation and instead went for "dynamic equivalence".
At time I think his translation may be just wrong.

from here

Victor tries to draw a parrallel between Genesis and John

Regarding his translation he say

So beware.

This might give you an idea of where he is coming from.

Loomis

My hypothesis might be sorry, but not me! Thanks in advance for responding.

I agree, and concede that this is inconsistent with the personality of the Jesus Christ character. Nevertheless I hold my ground. Keep in mind I don’t think we are talking about real gods (or even a historical Jesus) here, and there is nothing that would prevent GJohn from evolving earlier characters.

It looks to me like the character of Satan may have originated with the El-worshippers who did not accept Yahweh into their pantheon. That would explain why Yahweh appears to be Satan: In their opinion, he was.

I am familiar with most facts and opinions concerning Lucifer and the Morning Stars, and I’m not sure where you are going with it, or what your point is. But since you brought it up check this out:

According to KTU 1.23, the story of “Dawn and Dusk,� Shachar was also a son of El. He had a twin brother named Shalim, whose name might be the basis for Salem, and then Jerusalem. (Meaning "fortress of Shalim")

So if we had to believe all this was true, then we might conclude that the king of Babylon was Yahweh/ Jesus’ nephew!

My second assertion (in my opening post) was that the various bible authors did not share a common view of who or what YHWH or Yeshua was. I am not suggesting that the belief that Yahweh = Jesus was widespread. In fact, even GJohn says his belief was not well known.
Sorry. You lost me. I am very, very, vary, familiar with all of these things you are talking about, but I don’t know what your point is, or how it relates (supports or discredits) my hypothesis.

Please slow down – cause I can be a real dummy some times.

Loomis

Cool. But everyone seems to have forgotten that Yahweh had a dad. And so they get all confused when the Jesus character starts going on about his father in heaven.

I think there is a big misunderstanding that the ancient Hebrews / Israelites were monotheistic and that they held a unified opinion on who and what “God� was.

I think that is horseshit.

Further, there are a lot of secular scholars who are quick to accept that the ancient Hebrews / Israelites were polytheistic, but that they somehow evolved into monotheists before the "birth of Christianity."

Horseshit.

I am arguing that some Jews believed that Yahweh was a son of El right up until the “birth of Christianity.� I think the author of Gospel of John was one of those people.

cass256

i just got to the last word in my post and everything disappeared when I hit my shift key.
I will write it again tomorrow to follow your answer. You're not slow, I just dumped everything I had in your lap. You know it is clear as a bell to the one who is writing it.

In Short, Jesus may have become the word/YHWH at his baptism, not his birth. If we never saw the virgin gospel, what would we know? that Jesus was baptized, the spirit came down on him/into him and a voice said this is my son; and supposedly fulfilled Psalm 2:7 we find it written in the book to the Hbrews 5:5 also mentioned in acts 13:33 The word become flesh. begotten by the father, at his rebirth from the water. He was Born again YHWH.

At the cross YHWH left him and thus we get; my god my god, where'd you go? the Forsaken Yeshua dies a corpse.

But YHWH meets Paul as Lucifer/Jesus and becomes worshipped as the Benevolent (equal to EL) " JESUS CHRIST", and for the price of admission also gets an Empire to punish his own people who he said he would hunt, torment, and punish for not keeping his laws. His threats are all over the OT.


That may cover it. The name given to Moses was Hayah. the one word has 2 different meanings.

If you hadn't read the translation tradition you could look at Exodus and think the god said I AM, or I RUIN. Which to choose? Maybe both? "Hayah asher Hayah"

EL is Benevolent.
YHWH basically told Moses that Abraham knew him as EL Almighty, and not as YHWH.
But, from that day forward he was to be called Hayah or YHWH. Maybe Abraham and sons never followed YHWH . Their God could have been EL. If El ever communicates. The god that created and did not give them laws to follow, was El.
YHWH was edited back into Genesis. Yahweh creates man and gives him a law, so he could have reason to punish.
Which stories are El and which YHWH?
who really knows? All I know is that those details are in the story. And I only read EL as benevolent. So far..

cass256

now now, your story oculd still hold water even if the jews were monotheistic.
they left Egypt, and there was even a Pharoah that was monotheistic. The egyptions got rid of him. Maybe he passed moses on his way out.
It could very well be that El worshippers were in Egypt at a time when everyone who wasn't Egyptian got the boot. Then, they were forced to follow Yahweh by who ever Moses was. It says everyone who worshipped the calf was killed. Those who kept their lives had to follow YHWH, there was no other choice. El was also called bull EL. Too bad his people were passive. it got them slaughtered by those who chose to follow moses. If the tales are true.

cass256

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cass256

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