Hopeful Monsters

Further to a Post of mine here, I decided to make a Thread out of the answers to it, and rather than seek a BC&H approach to it, ask readers in more of a GRD spirit to comment on:― What are the implications for Christianity of the kind of information below ― how do both believers and non-believers react? What effect does this stuff have on you? Any other comments/reactions?

Q: Who is it this passage speaks of―Answer: That is a pagan inscription relating to Mithra found in a pagan temple buried by the early Christian church (it was displaced by Vatican buildings). It pre-dates revelation of the NT text by hundreds of years. Note―

- Mithra was born on December 25th, with shepherds present
- He was believed to be a redeemer
- He was considered a great traveling teacher and master
- He was a god of light, truth and honor
- He had 12 companions or disciples
- He performed miracles
- After three days he rose again from his tomb and ascended to heaven
- He promised to return at end of time to judge mankind
- His resurrection was celebrated every year
- He was identified with both the Lion and the Lamb
- His sacred day was Sunday, "the Lord's Day" hundreds of years before the appearance of ‘Christ’
- Mithra had his principal festival at what was later to become Easter, at which time he was resurrected
- His religion had a Eucharist or "Lord's Supper"
- He was celebrated every year with bread & wine

Q: Who was believed to be―Answer: The Buddha (c.563-c.483(?) or c.460(?) BCE) who also―

- was born of the virgin Maya, who was considered the "Queen of Heaven"
- was of royal descent
- crushed a serpent's head
- Sakyamuni Buddha had 12 disciples
- performed miracles and wonders, healed the sick, fed 500 men from a "small basket of cakes" and walked on water
- abolished idolatry
- taught enlightenment, chastity, temperance, tolerance, compassion, love, and the equality of all
- was transfigured on a mount
- Sakya Buddha was crucified in a sin-atonement, suffered for three days in hell, and was resurrected
- ascended to Nirvana or "heaven"
- was considered the "Good Shepherd", the "Carpenter", the "Infinite and Everlasting"

Q: Who was referred to as―Answer: Krishna (this tale as told in the Hindu Vedas has been dated back to about 1400 BCE) note also―

- was born of the Virgin Devaki ("Divine One")
- was incarnation in human form of a god (Vishnu)
- father was a carpenter
- His birth was attended by angels, wise men and shepherds, and he was presented with gold, frankincense and myrrh
- He was of royal descent
- worked miracles and wonders
- is believed to have delivered the great moral discourse (Bhagavadgita)
- raised the dead and healed lepers, the deaf and the blind
- used parables to teach the people about charity and love
- lived poor and he loved the poor
- was transfigured in front of his disciples
- in some traditions died on a tree or was crucified between two thieves
- rose from the dead and ascended to heaven
- is the second person of the Trinity and proclaimed himself the "Resurrection" and the "way to the Father"
- was considered the "Beginning, the Middle and the End" ("Alpha and Omega") as well as being omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent
- Krishna is to return to do battle with the "Prince of Evil" who will desolate the earth

Q: Who was called―Answer: Osiris, also―

- he was a god-man who suffered, and died, and rose again, and reigned eternally in heaven

- his followers believed that they would inherit eternal life, just as he had done
- his flesh was eaten in the form of communion cakes of wheat, the 'plant of Truth'
- his struggles with Seth/Set/Sata (the dark facet of his brother Horus) mirror those with Satan
- the cult of Osiris contributed a number of ideas and phrases to the Bible. The 23rd Psalm copied an Egyptian text appealing to Osiris the Good Shepherd to lead the deceased to the 'green pastures' and 'still waters' of the nefer-nefer land, to restore the soul to the body, and to give protection in the valley of the shadow of death (the Tuat). The Lord's Prayer was prefigured by an Egyptian hymn to Osiris – ‘Amen’ - beginning. 'O Amen, O Amen, who are in heaven.' Amen was also invoked at the end of every prayer

Q: Of whom was it written in scripture that “they drank from that spiritual rock and that rock was (six letter name here)�?

Answer: This is from an inscription found inside a cave within the Vatican grounds that had actually belonged to followers of Mithra until 376 CE. Note 1 Cor. 10:4.

Q: To whom are these words attributed―

�I have come to be thy protection … I have taken away the veil above thee, from him who acted against thee�
then
“[he] has gathered for thee thy bones, he has restored thy limbs to health, he has removed all evil, he has caused all sorrow to depart. Thou shalt not decay�

Answer: Nephthys (sister of Osiris) then Anubis (the quotes are from an Isis & Nephthys panel in the sarcophagus of King Tutankhamun). Note that Osiris was seen as the judge of souls after death …

Note This Post too.

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PLEASE NOTE:―
Some of the above, credit is due to―

Acharya S and The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold by Acharya S

and

The Jesus Mysteries by Timothy Freke, Peter Gandy

Which I have supplemented by my own research from other sources.

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Hopeful Monsters

Osiris (Egypt), Dionysus (Greece), Attis (Asia Minor), Adonis (Syria), Bacchus (Italy), Mithra (Persia) were referred to from as early as the third century BCE as ‘Osiris-Dionysus’ since they were often recognised in culture as aspects or representations of the same mythical being.

Osiris-Dionysus―

- is god made flesh
- a savior and ‘son of god’
- has a father who is god and a mother who is a mortal virgin
- was born in a cave or humble cowshed on 25 December with shepherds present
-offers followers a chance to be born again through baptism
-miraculously turns water into wine a marriage ceremony
- died at Easter time as a sacrifice for the sins of the world
- after his death, descends into hell then rises on the 3rd day and ascends to heaven in glory
- his death and resurrection are celebrated by a ritual meal of bread and wine, which are taken to symbolise his body & blood
- rides into town on a donkey while onlookers wave palm trees to honor him

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With thanks to―

The Jesus Mysteries by Timothy Freke, Peter Gandy

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John A. Broussard

I've been checking on Mithraism, and I find that it's extremely difficult to decide who borrowed from whom. There is no certainty that it was all one way, as you describe it here. The Roman Empire at that time was awash with mystery cults, and worshippers undoubtedly drifted back and forth.

Without question, most of Christian dogma and ritual is borrowed from earlier cults going back thousands of years prior to Christ, but Mithraism shouldn't be overdone as a source of these borrowings.

Great list, by the way.

Hopeful Monsters

I do know what you mean - most certainly - and I felt the same way researching it.

But the point is that Christianity, as a story that has come to humankind, does not do so clean out of the blue (new, fresh, startling in its difference) - as far as I can see it just cannot be untangled from ALL and EVERY kind of detail above ... because it IS entangled.

Christanity is solely an artefact of human culture and no more than that.

John A. Broussard

Religion, in general, tends to be especially susceptible to this kind of "cultural contamination."

For example, the Rapture is a relatively new idea that has engrafted itself on some fundamentalist churches. There's a strong proponent of this idea in this section of the forum, and it's fascinating to see the nature of these ideas.

Other parts of our belief systems, such as medicine, can also be modified by strange new ideas, but there's far less tendency to go all out on something new. A broken arm gets a cast, pretty much as it did a hundred years ago. No one suggests homeopathy or acupuncture as a cure for that particular condition.

RussianM3_dude

Wow, great post, another bullet (more like an RPG) in my arsenal...

Hopeful Monsters

Hey - don't thank me

There is a new generation of writers/researchers tackling this subject, and, while they may be open to fair critique, they are onto something worth taking notice of.

See here and the Posts immediately above

Killer Mike

I like to use the term "Christian Mythology".

Christians who take the stories of Jesus seriously are like children who take the stories about Santa Clause seriously. Its as simple as that!

Asha'man

Unfortunately, according to the consensus in BC&H, Acharya S rather overstated the similarities between Mithra and Jesus. Her scholarship was simply shoddy, and her biases distorted her judgement. There are quite a few similarities, don't get me wrong, and I have no doubt that the Gospel stories were stealing ideas and plotlines from pre-existant sources. But Mithra isn't quite the template for Jesus that your post implies.

Hopeful Monsters

Conceded (and also acknowledging elements of your wider points about Acharya S) that Mithra/Mithras is not a sole, precise template on its own and some of this is up for debate - but preceding: astro-theologies, pagan worldviews, mystery religions and deity myths get pretty close between them.

Eg. Osiris, Isis, Anubis, Horus, Prometheus, Krishna, Buddha, Mithras, Zeus, Apollo, Ptah, Marduk, Dionysus, Attis, Adonis, Samothhrace, Kore, Apollonius of Tyana, Zalmoxis, Bacchus, the Etruscans' notions of heaven & hell ...

When men essentially concocted Christ, this stuff was in the cultural fabric, floating in the cultural air and ready to be snatched from the cultural pot.

There's this and the fact that humankind obsessively-compulsively invents god.