ohmi

I am fully aware of that .

My point is that one cannot seek the truth if one starts from using terms which do not reflect reality ,as intersex does not.

Some people regard themselves [rightly in that case] as having no gender, some few as having both genders, some as having gender opposite to that ascribed to them by some others : the topic is vast in fact and the distinctions assumed by many and by the laws to be ascertainable are in fact not clear at all ... there has not been justice to individuals in the past, nor is there yet clarity and justice in assigning of gender and acceptance of the continuity of variation of all supposed 'signs of gender' ... the truth has been suppressed by many for a long time and many are not ready yet to face the facts that gender is not well-defined ,not the simple matter some think that it is , nor is gender distinct [as many still imagine it to be distinct because of laws and traditions , and even get hostile when confronted with the fact that it is not]

Species8472

Although I mostly agree with you here, I do not see the problem that society identify two sexes by their role in reproduction and everything other than that as intersexual. Most medically intersexuals still fit into either the male or female box anyway. Intersexual is a word that well describes the variety in between these fairly well defined outer points. The fact that religious people and ignorant people put their fingers in their ears and close their eyes to anything that doesn't fit their world view doesn't mean we can't have terms that describe these vriations.

ohmi

[quote=ohmi;5406487]The problem is that gender is not well-defined , there is a continuity between male and female partly determined by amount and timing of the male sex hormones ... and there are a few true hermaphrodites , people who are both male and female physically and mentally ... and there are those who have no gender [and many of these do not want to have a gender either]... and there are those who know that they have been falsely assigned the wrong gender ... and those who want to change their gender [and some do so] for various reasns other than that they beieve it is mistaken...



It is simply a lie to push people into boxes just for the sake of a demonstrably false idea , gender is NOT two-fold , it is not even a continuum either . It is crazy to attempt to change people to fit a false idea, it is the law, society, and people's ignorance that needs to be changed , together with the bizarre persecution of people who just don't fit in any way in standardised boxes mis-designed by ignorant men



There are no well-defined outer points , that is the point! Gender is not well-defined at all ...and 'intersexual' means nothing.

Religious people by nature accept things blindly [as their faith in sinners shows] and so, understandably, cannot accept anything that disproves their 'faith' in what they have been told to believe , but this problem of 'dogma' occurs just as much in science and everyday life , it is not just a problem of all religion.

Ignorance has to be willful in this world because the information is available widely [yet e.g. many prefer the majority slush on TV and in newspapres to even the limited factual programming there]

And we do have terms to describe different aspects of gender , multiple gender and non-gender, but they are not integrated into society, religion, law ...

Species8472

I'm well aware of this, it is not the point I'm trying to make...

What I'm saying is that there are "zones" in either end so to speak that for the sake of society provides a sufficient basis as to who is male and who is female. Traditionally depending on their role in reproduction. The underlying biology is rather irrelevant in this aspect, and in the research I have read on this, intersexuality is described as the various variations one can find in humans that would deviate from these traditionally accepted terms.

Although that is well and fine, people in general care little for the nitty details behind the surface, and why should they? As long as fundamentalists do not cause people grief for not conforming to the common society standards.

ohmi

The fact is that many people's lives are made a misery by persecution of minorities because the majority view is ignorant , over-simplified, simply wrong ... gender persecution is but one example of the actual result of the inanity of the majority, willful refusal to face the truth that what they have accepted so readily from others was in fact mistaken... conveniently simple , but actually invented lies... propaganda about a mythical 'norm' that simply doesn't exist.

The grief is very real , but as usual those who cause it do not want to look and see that their false ideas are the cause, let alone change their views and stop the persecution.

Species8472

A bit pessimistic and overly dramatic don't you think?
Not sure why you keep replying to my posts with this as it is not the point I'm making...

Reason

I remember reading some dimwitted treatise claiming that both Adam and Eve were hermaphrodites, based on the babblical construction, "...male and female made he them."

ohmi

Since the scripture is addressed to the saints, their gender hardly matters ...

1Cor 7:25 ¶ Now concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord: yet I give my judgment, as one that hath obtained mercy of the Lord to be faithful.
26 I suppose therefore that this is good for the present distress, I say, that it is good for a man so to be.
27 Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife.
28 But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you.
29 But this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none;