judge

Luke 1:1-4

Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, 2just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. 3Therefore, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, it seemed good also to me to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, 4so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.

Is there a work of fiction , ideally from the ancient world, that addresses the reader in such a manner?

This introduction seems to be purporting to give a an historical account, to me at least. But perhaps not? Any thoughts anyone?

Toto

There's been a lot written on this particular subject. I will come back to this later, but here is Vernon Robbins:

The Claims of the Prologues and Greco-Roman Rhetoric: The Prefaces to Luke and Acts in the Light of Greco-Roman Rhetorical Strategies

spamandham

Most scholars agree that Luke is based on Mark (or Q). The author may well have thought of Mark/Q as history (by his standards). In the modern world, we tend to think of history from a scientific perspective, but there's not much evidence the ancients thought the same way. It didn't seem to bother them in the least to intermix fact and fiction. A few facts aided the credibility of fiction back then, rather than fiction throwing facts into question as it would today.

The same author might write both what he considers historical, and also an apologetic work, with no sense of disingenuousness.

judge

What about Tacitus, Josephus or Cassius Dio?


Can you give some examples?
Surely a few facts can add to the credibilty of fiction today as well?

What might be an example of such that could be compared with Luke?

Thanks.

Clivedurdle

Fascinating paper!

Have similar studies of Paul been carried out? The idea of writing to groups "in the know" is particularly interesting, and that Luke Acts are written as to and from lower middle class artisan engineering type folk.

The comments about lower grade rhetoric as used by middling students are of note.

Might there have been a not very good writing school that produced all this stuff of the new testament?

A Mills and Boon type publishing house who happened to procure a couple of slightly better but not that good authors?

aa5874

The author may well have known that he was writing propaganda just to suuport a new religion, bearing in mind gLuke is considered to have been written at least 50-100 years after the alleged events.


Well, look at the Life of the Caesars by Suetonius and the Life of Tiberius where Suetonius wrote about the date of the birth of Tiberius, a contemporary of the supposed Jesus.

"Life of Tiberius" 5 And now look at gLuke's supposed eyewitness account about the alleged birth of Jesus.

Luke 1.26-31 This account by the unknown author of Luke appears to be propaganda and incredulous or of no historical value quite unlike the account by Suetonius.

spamandham

Josephus records flying chariots as if it were factual.

judge

Yes he does, (Wars 6.5,3) (or at least he records it was reported), and tacitus records the same event (Histories, Book 5, v. 13), , however for the most part they record history as we do today.

It does not seem to be that "A few facts aided the credibility of fiction back then, rather than fiction throwing facts into question as it would today", but rather for the most part they just recorded the facts as one would today and on the odd occaision report that men claimed to see something quite odd.

Roland

And don't they also reveal the sources for their information at various times? "Luke" never does that (in fact, he never even identifies HIMSELF!).

judge

Yes well anyone can see that Lukes descrition of the birth is quite odd. it contains stuff we just don't see in everyday life.

That is whay I wanted to look at the first 4 verses. These are quite similar to Suetonius.

Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, 2just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. 3Therefore, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, it seemed good also to me to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, 4so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.

If one can deal with the more difficult stuff then the argument for Luke being fiction strengthens considerably.