Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Diogenes the Cynic · 06-07-2012, 12:52 PM

An irrational belief is irrational no matter who holds it.

Sheshbazzar · 06-07-2012, 12:56 PM

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Originally Posted by sotto voce

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Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

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Originally Posted by sotto voce

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Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

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Originally Posted by sotto voce

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Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

It remains simply a story within a text of religious stories, that has never been, cannot be, corroborated by any evidence external to the content of that text.

That's not true, actually.

Actually it is. You cannot provide any verifiable evidence that this alleged figure ever existed outside of Bible stories

Or Bible accounts. Why don't you come at historicist's with an ax, to settle their hash? Such coercion as 'fictional stories' merely shoots yourself, and in a region higher than the foot.

Of course there is evidence. There is no forum, to my knowledge, about the historicity of the Egyptian deity Amun, or of the Incas' Inti. So this very thread, this forum, is evidence. It's not proof, but you didn't ask for that, and I've said it isn't available, anyway. If you live in a Western town, there are within walking distance probably half a dozen places where sane, intelligent people who believe in a historical Jesus reckon to actually talk to him. They, and people the world over, don't do that with Amun, Inti, Poseidon, Toutatis or any of thousands other supposed deities that have been prayed to. Jesus knocked every last one out of the pantheon. That's evidence.

Your doctor, your lawyer, your child's teacher, your chief of police, your bank manager, your national leader, may well regard Jesus as historical. These are not people who can be dismissed, as people who read astrologists or chase UFOs. That's evidence.

Of the same quality as the visions and predictions of astrologist's, and the UFO abduction stories, or those wearing their tinfoil hats.
They most certainly can be dismissed.

So will MJers henceforth dismiss HJ doctors, lawyers, teachers, police, bank managers, national leaders? Maybe they will have to colonise another planet.

Everyone is an individual, and each MJer makes their own judgment as to the quality or value of their professional acquaintances professed beliefs in the Bible and Jebus. I do not pretend to speak for anyone else.
But if any of my professional acquaintances or other acquaintance or family members believe in this horse-shit, I mark it up to them being victims infected with the socially transmitted brain eating Zombie Jebus virus.
I live and let live, if they show any signs of trying to spread this infection to me, I find myself a new, or a different doctor or lawyer, school or bank manager, I try to avoid contact with policemen, Politicians and any other authority figures that display any obvious symptoms of being infected with brain eating Zombie Jebus Disease.

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And the rest of your post can very justly go in the garbage.

For all I care you can stuff it up the same place your head is.

For the sake of spin's OP I will not engage in any further such exchanges in this thread.

mountainman · 06-07-2012, 05:37 PM

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Originally Posted by Toto

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Originally Posted by sotto voce

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So the evidence for Jesus must centre on the likelihood of his resurrection, ... . The genuine historian cannot ignore the moral content of Jesus' alleged teaching, and also ignore the moral quality of the world that this teaching addressed. To ignore it is to admit that Jesus really did exist, and was resurrected.

That's one leaping non sequitur.

Aside from morality judgements and historical judgements not mixing, sv thinks for example that Plotinus's 3rd century failure to mention Jesus is an admission of Jesus's existence. What can one say about arguments like that? Who needs historical evidence? Certainly not the genuine historian.

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Especially since Jesus does not seem to have done anything in the past 2000 years to improve the moral quality of this world.

Perhaps the real Jesus is still underground?

Perhaps Jesus's existence is a conspiracy by the Devil Himself?

How would we know?

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06-07-2012, 12:52 PM	#11
Diogenes the Cynic Moderator - Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Posts: 4,639	An irrational belief is irrational no matter who holds it.

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