nightwyrm

Something strange occurred to me. Could our biblical progenitors have ever been able to not commit the first sin?

Let us assume that Adam and Eve have free will and that this free will could be represented by having a non-zero probability (a) of eating from the apple tree on any particular day.

Then the probability of obeying God and not eating an apple on any particular day is 1-a, and the probability of not eating the apple for two days is (1-a)*(1-a)=(1-a)^2. etc.

So the probability of not eating an apple for n consecutive days is (1-a)^n.

If we assume that Adam and Eve would've been able to live forever in the garden of Eden if not for being kicked out, then the number of days spent in the garden (n) could approach infinity.

So the limit of (1-a)^n, as n approaches infinity, equals 0.

So the conclusion is that there would've been no way for Adam and Eve to avoid commiting the first sin if they lived forever in Eden. I just find it kinda funny that the inevitable statistical result of living forever in the garden is sin.

DanBZ

Except for the fact that there is no way the Christians will ever buy that.

braces_for_impact

Ah, but they could have chopped it down and burned it, thus relieving themselves of temptation. Yeah, that's it.

aa5874

That might have been worse, God maybe would have trumped up something to make sure that they sinned. Perhaps, one of the fruits would have inadvertently fall into Eve's mouth.

Betelnut

No, they could not have avoided it and still be human beings. What human being can avoid temptation forever?

Plus, they were not really aware that what they were doing was wrong as they were innocent and did not know what "good and evil" were. Can a cat be condemned for knocking over a glass of water? Is a lion sinful when it kills a zebra?

God didn't even tell Eve directly about the prohibition--she got the news from Adam, not God. What woman is going to listen to what a man tells her and why should she believe him? He's not God! (Genesis 2:16-17)

God knew all of this since he created human beings in the first place. So our downfall, wages of sin, all that jazz were predestined.

Doug Shaver

I've never seen free will interpreted in those terms before, and I don't find it a useful interpretation.

There is no reason to give the story any serious consideration except in terms of Christian dogma. Christian dogma says they could have chosen not to sin.

John Kesler

If God had made them with the proper "programming," then they could have remained sinless. The usual Christian response to the suggestion that God could have made man sinless is the free-will defense. However, free will and sinlessness are not logically incongruous. If it is possible to go a day without murdering, stealing, coveting, etc., then it is theoretically possible to go two days, three days, ad infinitum without sinning. Also, presumably there will be no sinning in heaven, so unless Christians somehow have their free will removed before entering heaven, then this is another proof that sinlessness and free will are compatible.

Von Smith

Seems to me to be as good a way to model the problem as any. Do you disagree that Adam and Eve had a non-zero probability of eating of the fruit (or if you prefer, of choosing to eat of the fruit) on any given day?

Did Moses sell all the rights to the Torah without telling anybody? There are plenty of reasons to consider the story in terms other than Christian dogma.
Moreover, there is no such thing as a single, monolithic Christian dogma regarding free will.

Steven Carr

God could have put angels with big swords to guard the tree, and block Adam and Eve from eating from it.

Apparently, God can put angels with flaming swords to guard trees , without ever interfering with people's free will. He does just that in the Bible.

PlanoSuds

Don't let us forget that an all knowing God would have "known" they would eat from the tree "he" put there!!! Nice move God.....jerk!