Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Toto · 09-22-2010, 06:06 PM

Quote:

On the floor, the archaeologists found a colorful mosaic, decorated with a geometric pattern. In the center, a Greek inscription proclaimed: “This is the temple.”

According to Leah Di Segni, the scholar at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem who translated the inscription, the plan of the building, the orientation and the content of the inscription are in keeping with a Samaritan synagogue.

Indeed, the prayer hall faced southwest toward Mount Gerizim, a mound sacred to the Samaritans, people believed to have originated in the ancient northern kingdom of Israel.

stephan huller · 09-22-2010, 09:04 PM

The Samaritans. The true Israel. At least their holy place is named in the Torah. I was actually more excited about the uncovering of a city on top of Gerizim a while back. But this is still interesting. Thanks

Toto · 09-22-2010, 09:21 PM

What do you make of the inscription in Greek?

stephan huller · 09-23-2010, 12:04 AM

The Greek is very surprising. I have noted to my friend Benny Tsedaka that Marqe (the most important figure in the tradition after Moses) can be demonstrated to have used a Greek translation of the Torah (either the LXX or the Samaritikon). My assumption was that this demonstrated (a) an Alexandrian origin for the writings and (b) an early date. This might not be so sure now. To some degree the Samaritan leadership had to have been able to function in the Greek language. A parallel example might be a madras or a mosque in any major urban center in the world today. Would all the signs necessarily be in Arabic or the native tongue of the community? No not necessarily. We might even expect the word 'mosque' somewhere in the building written in English, French etc.

Toto · 09-23-2010, 12:25 AM

Signs inside a mosque might be in the local language, but the writing in the decor will probably be in Arabic. Pictures here of a mosque in Southern California - the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th show Arabic caligraphy.

stephan huller · 09-23-2010, 12:41 AM

As I said, it might well change the way we view Samaritan history. The real question however is what group of Samaritans are represented here? There is ample evidence that Dositheans continued as a separate tradition into the Arabic period. As the name suggests the community probably spoke Greek.

stephan huller · 09-23-2010, 12:44 AM

According to Abu'l Fath the great Samaritan chronicler the first Dosithean subsect - the so-called Baunai (i.e. those who pray) had their headquarters in Beth Shean (Scythopolis).

Clivedurdle · 09-25-2010, 02:59 AM

The local mosque door has a sign on it in English requesting the faithful to step outside with whichever foot it is. The door opens outwards, it is on the inside of the door.

stephan huller · 09-25-2010, 11:53 AM

Exactly Clive. The point is that as with a lot of things it is difficult to know what the implications of something like Greek writing in a mosaic really mean. Let's face it - when you go into a building associated with a 'foreign tradition' like Islam and all the signs are in Arabic, you end up feeling like an outsider. We happen to have a generally tolerant culture ('we' I guess meaning Canada, parts of America, the UK, France etc.) where a mosque might feel privileged to enforce an Arabic only policy. I know that in Quebec the 'sign law' established in the 90's enforces a French only policy to reinforce the province as a French state within a state. Yet it would not be surprising that the Samaritans in the Byzantine period would have felt inclined to write an inscription or develop a mosaic in Greek given that the Byzantines were such bastards. It horrible period for the Samaritans. One reason certainly why they looked to Mohammed and the Arab armies as liberators. Little did they know things would only get worse.

Nevertheless it is only in liberal societies or weak societies that one would expect that a building devoted to a culture which was a 'state within a state' would have the balls to put up signs in a language not used by the ruling class. The Greek would likely have been a means of assuring the powers that be that 'nothing seditious' was going on or being said here. In short, I don't know upon reflection that the mosaic really means anything.

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09-22-2010, 09:04 PM	#2
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	The Samaritans. The true Israel. At least their holy place is named in the Torah. I was actually more excited about the uncovering of a city on top of Gerizim a while back. But this is still interesting. Thanks

09-22-2010, 09:21 PM	#3
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	What do you make of the inscription in Greek?

09-23-2010, 12:04 AM	#4
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	The Greek is very surprising. I have noted to my friend Benny Tsedaka that Marqe (the most important figure in the tradition after Moses) can be demonstrated to have used a Greek translation of the Torah (either the LXX or the Samaritikon). My assumption was that this demonstrated (a) an Alexandrian origin for the writings and (b) an early date. This might not be so sure now. To some degree the Samaritan leadership had to have been able to function in the Greek language. A parallel example might be a madras or a mosque in any major urban center in the world today. Would all the signs necessarily be in Arabic or the native tongue of the community? No not necessarily. We might even expect the word 'mosque' somewhere in the building written in English, French etc.

09-23-2010, 12:25 AM	#5
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Signs inside a mosque might be in the local language, but the writing in the decor will probably be in Arabic. Pictures here of a mosque in Southern California - the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th show Arabic caligraphy.

09-23-2010, 12:41 AM	#6
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	As I said, it might well change the way we view Samaritan history. The real question however is what group of Samaritans are represented here? There is ample evidence that Dositheans continued as a separate tradition into the Arabic period. As the name suggests the community probably spoke Greek.

09-23-2010, 12:44 AM	#7
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	According to Abu'l Fath the great Samaritan chronicler the first Dosithean subsect - the so-called Baunai (i.e. those who pray) had their headquarters in Beth Shean (Scythopolis).

09-25-2010, 02:59 AM	#8
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	The local mosque door has a sign on it in English requesting the faithful to step outside with whichever foot it is. The door opens outwards, it is on the inside of the door.

09-25-2010, 11:53 AM	#9
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	Exactly Clive. The point is that as with a lot of things it is difficult to know what the implications of something like Greek writing in a mosaic really mean. Let's face it - when you go into a building associated with a 'foreign tradition' like Islam and all the signs are in Arabic, you end up feeling like an outsider. We happen to have a generally tolerant culture ('we' I guess meaning Canada, parts of America, the UK, France etc.) where a mosque might feel privileged to enforce an Arabic only policy. I know that in Quebec the 'sign law' established in the 90's enforces a French only policy to reinforce the province as a French state within a state. Yet it would not be surprising that the Samaritans in the Byzantine period would have felt inclined to write an inscription or develop a mosaic in Greek given that the Byzantines were such bastards. It horrible period for the Samaritans. One reason certainly why they looked to Mohammed and the Arab armies as liberators. Little did they know things would only get worse. Nevertheless it is only in liberal societies or weak societies that one would expect that a building devoted to a culture which was a 'state within a state' would have the balls to put up signs in a language not used by the ruling class. The Greek would likely have been a means of assuring the powers that be that 'nothing seditious' was going on or being said here. In short, I don't know upon reflection that the mosaic really means anything.

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