Baidarka

According to the Kosher Laws eggs are not meat.
This includes fertilized eggs.
This means that chicken fetuses are not classified as meat.
Eggs can be consumed with milk.
If chicken fetuses are not meat then human fetuses are not meat.
That means that fetuses are really vegetables (if bats can be birds why can't fetuses be vegetables?)
There fore God must be pro-choice.

DougP

God doesnt hold animals on the same level as humans though so im not sure this argument would hold up to fundies. I like it though. (of course the whole point is moot since god doesnt exist )

MonCapitan2002

"22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine."

Exodus 21-22 KJV

This passage would imply that God would have no problem with abortion.

diana

Numbers 5:13-28 recounts the "test" God condones for women accused of adultery. The woman is given a "bitter water" to drink. And "if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, [and become] bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people."

"Thigh shall rot" is euphemistic. (Obviously. It doesn't make any damn sense otherwise, huh?) This means that if she's cheated, the bitter water will make her uterus drop and her child abort. Further, she'll become barren.

From what I can glean from this passage, God not only condones abortion but encourages it in some cases.

d

diana

Oh, and there are also various places in the OT where the Children of Israel are ordered to utterly destroy various nations, sometimes including even the cattle. That would necessarily include infants and the unborn. Again...abortion as a result of God's commandment.

Those who claim the bible forbids abortion willfully ignore such necessary inferences.

d

breathilizer

It's that same good old fashioned pick-and-choose philosophy.

akekajoo

Its a little frustrating to see fellow skeptics trot this around without any further research on the matter, accepting it as the only relevant bible passage regarding abortion since they saw it on a website somewhere. With only a quick internet search, you can find a passage in Deuteronomy(19:5 or 6, or both)that shows the penalty for accidental manslaughter. Which is absolutely nothing. The killer is merely advised to run away and take refuge in another city before the family of the victim finds him. So it turns out that the biblical punishment for accidental abortion is actually MORE than that for accidental manslaughter. This of course can be debated, but it would be intellectually dishonest to disregard the manslaughter passage when discussing abortion and the bible.

WinAce

Hence inspiring LordCo's Psalter's Choice Do-It-Yourself Abortion Kit.

diana

I'm more interested, actually, in what God's punishment for intentional abortion is, but since we're on this one, the verse in question leaves the whole thing up to the husband and judge, yes? Sounds to me like the punishment for accidental manslaughter is probably about the same, should the killer be caught before he makes refuge. See...Jews tend to not look at these things all literal like your average fundamental Christian; they have a fine tradition of interpreting their scriptures allegorically and reasonably. Hence all the rabbinical argument (part of their fine tradition).

So what if the woman is unwed? What if her husband is not present? What if he's dead?

What if the woman is a captured "spoil of war"? Does the same rule apply?

As well as a possible oversight. The charge of intellectual dishonesty implies he was aware of the mandated manslaughter punishment and chose to ignore it so as to make his point.

d

akekajoo

I should have added "now that you know of the passage" to get my intent across better.