Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Earl IV · 09-11-2008, 08:06 PM

"Do not take from the tree of knowledge"

...so that you may remain ignorant and thus more easily manipulated.

"knowledge is bad"

"don't look behind the curtain"

:wide:

patcleaver · 09-11-2008, 09:37 PM

Eve had no reasonable evidence, that if she ate the fruit, that she would become Godlike.

Yet she believed that it was true without justification.

Obviously the first sin was religious faith.

That is why God hates religious people, because religious faith is evil.

Doug Shaver · 09-11-2008, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bacht

Isn't the story of Adam and Eve an allegory describing the "expulsion" we all experience from the innocence of childhood into the confusion and wickedness of self-aware adulthood?

That is how many Christians interpret it. Other Christians interpret it differently.

Any interpretation presupposes that the story must be true in some sense or at some level. I am aware of no reason to presuppose anything of the sort.

bacht · 09-12-2008, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaphod

That because of this "sin" of Eve, humankind can no longer even be born into an innocent state?

Isn't this backwards? Doesn't any observer of human behaviour see the tendencies towards dishonesty, greed, cruelty etc? Stories like this are a mythological attempt to explain human foolishness, like most mythology.

bacht · 09-12-2008, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Shaver

Quote:

Originally Posted by bacht

Isn't the story of Adam and Eve an allegory describing the "expulsion" we all experience from the innocence of childhood into the confusion and wickedness of self-aware adulthood?

That is how many Christians interpret it. Other Christians interpret it differently.

Any interpretation presupposes that the story must be true in some sense or at some level. I am aware of no reason to presuppose anything of the sort.

Why does the story have to be "true" for its message to be valid? Mythology is about describing human behaviour with extraordinary imagery. The point is that we all have to grow up, regardless of any "real" garden in Mesopotamia or wherever.

aa5874 · 09-12-2008, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anat

Quote:

I was under the impression that God kicked them out of the garden because they were able to distinguish good from evil, not because they had disobeyed, even though not doing what God said led to said knowledge.

Actually according to the author of the story God kicked them out because he feared they'd eat the fruit of the Tree of Life too and become immortal.

It seems that eating both fruits would have made A&E equal to God as was perceived by the author of the story (this version of God certainly wasn't omniscient) and he did not need competition (yes, the snake was the most honest character).

So, how could the created become a security risk for the Creator?

The Creator was scared of his creation?

The Creator made mistakes, He must have been the FIRST sinner.

Genesis 6.6

Quote:

And it repented the Lord that he hath made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth both man and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air, for it repenteth me that I have made them.

The Creator is not infallible, He erred.

Behold, the FIRST sinner, the Creator.

CrazyHorse · 09-12-2008, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patcleaver

Eve had no reasonable evidence, that if she ate the fruit, that she would become Godlike.

Yet she believed that it was true without justification.

Obviously the first sin was religious faith.

That is why God hates religious people, because religious faith is evil.

Ha ha ha ! That is brilliant ! :rolling:

Doug Shaver · 09-13-2008, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Shaver

Any interpretation presupposes that the story must be true in some sense or at some level. I am aware of no reason to presuppose anything of the sort.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bacht

Why does the story have to be "true" for its message to be valid?

I don't know why you put true in quotation marks. Are you a postmodernist?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bacht

Mythology is about describing human behaviour with extraordinary imagery.

If a myth describes human behavior realistically, then we can learn something from its description of human behavior. The fact that a myth uses extraordinary imagery does not imply that its description of human behavior is realistic. The behavior of Adam and Eve in the Genesis myth is not realistic. There is therefore nothing to be learned from it, except about the mindset of the people who created the myth and of people who still believe in it.

2-J · 09-14-2008, 01:02 PM

Does anyone know how Christians who interpret the story literally explain how Eve could sin even though she didn't have knowledge of good and evil? What's the standard line on this?

haitu · 09-14-2008, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2-J

Does anyone know how Christians who interpret the story literally explain how Eve could sin even though she didn't have knowledge of good and evil? What's the standard line on this?

i think the original sin was disobeying god. whether its good or evil is irrelevant.

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09-11-2008, 08:06 PM	#31
Earl IV Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Somewhere between lost and hopelessly lost Posts: 6,336	"Do not take from the tree of knowledge" ...so that you may remain ignorant and thus more easily manipulated. "knowledge is bad" "don't look behind the curtain" :wide:

09-11-2008, 09:37 PM	#32
patcleaver Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: New York Posts: 742	Eve had no reasonable evidence, that if she ate the fruit, that she would become Godlike. Yet she believed that it was true without justification. Obviously the first sin was religious faith. That is why God hates religious people, because religious faith is evil.

09-14-2008, 01:02 PM	#39
2-J Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: UK Posts: 179	Does anyone know how Christians who interpret the story literally explain how Eve could sin even though she didn't have knowledge of good and evil? What's the standard line on this?

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