Toto

Is there a good reason for this thread to stay open? The last few pages have just been a mind-numbing repetition of unanswerable questions and an exchange of borderline insults.

Pity your poor moderators who are supposed to be reading this.

sschlichter

No pay.
- not true. The Bible makes it clear that a slave can prosper and purchase his freedom. Also, I am sure you know that the Hebrew Mint was not in full production at the time and payment of food and lodging was pay.

Your boss owns your home where you reside.

- what if you work as a waiter on a cruise ship where you live. I can think of 100's of other low paying jobs where you do not have your own home and instead are supplied room and board. Disney World for example ships in 20,000 people from all over the world and puts them up so they can wait on tables and clean up after everyone else for 8 hours / day.

Your boss owns your food and how much you get.

- The Hebrew owner was under obligation to care for all those under his care. Slaves took part in all sabbaths and festivals.

your boss owns your clothes and how much you may wear.

- Slaves had clothes. Probably ratty and nasty like everyone else who was poor.

your boss owns the water you may drink and decides how much.

- A person who bought a slave was eager to keep him productive. This required the proper amount of food and water. A malevolent sort might be prone to abuse a slave and the law prevented that.

You boss may beat you, but only so much that you may not get up for two days.

- no, abuse was prevented. To harm a slave was a ticket to freedom for the salve. We discussed this for 10 pages.

Your boss may FUCK you literally insert penis into your ass any time he wishes to do so.

- This was forbidden for all women regardless of whether they were free or slaves. You are projecting this.

You boss may do this with all your children and significant other.

- not true for the parents or the children for the same reasons.

You ignored every law about slavery and substituted your own ideas about it. Why not just buy a book on ANE culture?

Sheshbazzar

I am rather curious, as it has been asserted in several ways in several different posts that everyone is now in slavery....
and as above, that if we stop working, "we will quickly find this out"
I have now been retired from the workforce since 1998, I am at liberty to get up when I feel like it, and am free to sleep till 5 in the afternoon, or even around the clock if I so chose.
No one tells me where or how I must spend my time, I travel where and when I choose, and no individual holds any claim over any aspect of my liberty that is legal within the laws of my country.
Thus I am quite interested to hear what these perpetual enslavement preachers find to fit their definition of my being a slave.

arnoldo

True, the Mosaic law was by far the most tolerant of the underclass when compared to all the other near middle eastern cultures by far. . .

Deuteronomy 24:14-21
“You shall not oppress a hired servant who is poor and needy, whether he is one of your countrymen or one of your aliens who is in your land in your towns. 15 “You shall give him his wages on his day before the sun sets, for he is poor and sets his heart on it; so that he will not cry against you to the LORD and it become sin in you.
16 “Fathers shall not be put to death for their sons, nor shall sons be put to death for their fathers; everyone shall be put to death for his own sin.
17 “You shall not pervert the justice due an alien or an orphan, nor take a widow’s garment in pledge. 18 “But you shall remember that you were a slave in Egypt, and that the LORD your God redeemed you from there; therefore I am commanding you to do this thing.
19 “When you reap your harvest in your field and have forgotten a sheaf in the field, you shall not go back to get it; it shall be for the alien, for the orphan, and for the widow, in order that the LORD your God may bless you in all the work of your hands. 20 “When you beat your olive tree, you shall not go over the boughs again; it shall be for the alien, for the orphan, and for the widow.
21 “When you gather the grapes of your vineyard, you shall not go over it again; it shall be for the alien, for the orphan, and for the widow. 22 “You shall remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt; therefore I am commanding you to do this thing.

Sheshbazzar

The key words here arnoldo are "hired servant", and in the Hebrew the term used is distinctive from the term rendered as "slave",
that is why you KJV does not use "slave" as the translation.
sakiyr="hired", is in distinction from the forms of "o'bed"= a servant, or a slave.
This is illustrated by such other verses as employ both terms to designate different classes of laborers.
Look up the Hebrew "hired servant" as contrasted with "bondman" of Lev. 25:6, 25:39-40
And in Deut. 15:18 where a Hebrew bondservant is "worth double a hired servant" If the categories were the same, or were equal, then the "bondservant" would not be deemed twice as valuable as a "hired" servant.
"Hired servants" were not to be treated as common "slaves". IE, they must be paid a daily wage, were not subjected to beatings, could not be compelled to labor against their will, could depart at any time, their wives and children remained their own, and could "go out" with the hired, and were not regarded as the property of their employer.
true slaves were granted none of these rights or liberties.

Exciter

Know of any non Christian apologetic sources by any chance?

Johnny Skeptic

Not at all, ancient Hebrews killed their own people for working on the Sabbath Day, cursing at their parents, and practicing the freedom of religion by worshipping other gods. That is most certainly not far more tolerant than other Middle Eastern cultures.

Do you have any evidence that Old Testament Hebrews were the most moral people in the world at the time?

sschlichter

I think you are a little confused. You made the claim that the slaves would not be idol worsippers and that they would assimilate into the culture of which they are servants. However, since no culture freed their slaves after 7 years, I do not see how you can make that claim.

You still seem confused. The law was to protect the Hebrews. It also provided ways to protect them from themselves. However, it was not obeyed and the Hebrews were taken slaves and were rehabilitated from idol worship.

sschlichter

of course. Those who have decided what they beleive (atheist or theist) quickly become an apologist either way.

sschlichter

ANE slaves were a little farther down on the social ladder. Perhaps you should look at some other examples of those that have to work to eat because they do not have a retirement, cannot afford their medicine, and have to work to eat. I am sure that you are aware that your situation is not common to most in the world or in history.