Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Chris Weimer · 07-25-2007, 04:53 PM

Did Lesbia exist?

Jayco · 07-25-2007, 05:22 PM

I recommend any serious material posted in here be edited into the Wiki article of the same name (poor Lesbia stub).

My opinion, as I've done research of the very same question, is that Lesbia only existed in Catallus' oeuvre. From what I understand, there isn't any scholarly evidence to point that she was a real person at all.

Toto · 07-25-2007, 05:27 PM

Lesbia

Quote:

...According to Apuleius, a much later author from Africa, 'Lesbia' was actually a fake name invented by Catullus, a common practice. ...

A recent article by the Roman historian Suzanne Dixon in Reading Roman Women (or via: amazon.co.uk) mounts a strong argument against not only the Lesbia/Clodia identification but also against the notion that 'Lesbia' refers to a historical woman at all.

But how would we ever know?

David B · 07-25-2007, 05:30 PM

I've never heard of her, before.

Bloody Hell, you guys that take the trouble to learn all you can about early sources impress me deeply, in a way.

In another way, it seems to me not unakin to being an expert in 18th century porcelain, or the origin of the novel.

Much more a sensible thing to get really into than trainspotting.

David B (supposes that Lesbia has nothing to do with eponymous sexual practices?)

Chris Weimer · 07-25-2007, 05:34 PM

If she never existed, what do you make of Lesbius, called Pulcer by Catullus? By Roman naming convention, they are related, and also of the charge of Cicero and his contemporaries that Clodia was incestuous with her brother Clodius Pulcher?

Chris Weimer · 07-25-2007, 05:34 PM

David B - that's what happens when this stuff is your life. Also, Lesbia is probably a reference to Sappho, the greatest poet of Lesbos. Some do think even in antiquity that Sappho was thought to be a Lesbian.

Cheerful Charlie · 07-25-2007, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David B

I've never heard of her, before.

Bloody Hell, you guys that take the trouble to learn all you can about early sources impress me deeply, in a way.

In another way, it seems to me not unakin to being an expert in 18th century porcelain, or the origin of the novel.

Much more a sensible thing to get really into than trainspotting.

David B (supposes that Lesbia has nothing to do with eponymous sexual practices?)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesbos_Island
Lesbos was a Greek island, home of the lesbian poetess Sappho.
The word "lesbian" is derived from the poems of Sappho, which contain powerful emotional content directed toward other women and have frequently been interpreted as expressing homosexual love. Because of this association, Lesbos and especially the town of Eresos, birthplace of Sappho, are visited frequently by lesbian tourists

CC

Julian · 07-25-2007, 07:58 PM

Which particular Lesbia are we talking about? It was a fairly common name, after all. Are we specifically concerned the existence (or not) of Lesbia of Catullus?

Julian

Sapho · 07-25-2007, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Weimer

David B - that's what happens when this stuff is your life. Also, Lesbia is probably a reference to Sappho, the greatest poet of Lesbos. Some do think even in antiquity that Sappho was thought to be a Lesbian.

SIGH....I wish I was half the poet Sappho was..

Jayco · 07-25-2007, 08:33 PM

Sappho is a fucking babe. She's more or less my muse.

I have a poster of this picture on my wall facing my computer chair.

07-25-2007, 04:53 PM	#1
Chris Weimer Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: none Posts: 9,879	Serious Literary Question Did Lesbia exist?

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07-25-2007, 05:22 PM	#2
Jayco Veteran Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Crystal Lake, Illinois Posts: 865	I recommend any serious material posted in here be edited into the Wiki article of the same name (poor Lesbia stub). My opinion, as I've done research of the very same question, is that Lesbia only existed in Catallus' oeuvre. From what I understand, there isn't any scholarly evidence to point that she was a real person at all.

07-25-2007, 05:30 PM	#4
David B Contributor Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Wales Posts: 11,620	I've never heard of her, before. Bloody Hell, you guys that take the trouble to learn all you can about early sources impress me deeply, in a way. In another way, it seems to me not unakin to being an expert in 18th century porcelain, or the origin of the novel. Much more a sensible thing to get really into than trainspotting. David B (supposes that Lesbia has nothing to do with eponymous sexual practices?)

07-25-2007, 05:34 PM	#5
Chris Weimer Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: none Posts: 9,879	If she never existed, what do you make of Lesbius, called Pulcer by Catullus? By Roman naming convention, they are related, and also of the charge of Cicero and his contemporaries that Clodia was incestuous with her brother Clodius Pulcher?

07-25-2007, 07:58 PM	#8
Julian Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Washington, DC (formerly Denmark) Posts: 3,789	Which particular Lesbia are we talking about? It was a fairly common name, after all. Are we specifically concerned the existence (or not) of Lesbia of Catullus? Julian

07-25-2007, 08:33 PM	#10
Jayco Veteran Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Crystal Lake, Illinois Posts: 865	Sappho is a fucking babe. She's more or less my muse. I have a poster of this picture on my wall facing my computer chair.

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