Javaman

He clearly asserts that he is the son of God:

Matthew 7:21
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Matthew 11:27
"All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.

Well, maybe not 'clearly' but whoever Jesus is, he must be important:

[MoreOnTopic]
Matthew 10
36a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.'
37"Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me;
38and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.[/MoreOnTopic]


Still looking for 'Trinity'...

Javaman

This passage always seemed to unseemly for the Bible. I'll have to bring it up at work today:

Ezekiel 23
17 And the Babylonians came to her into the bed of love, and they defiled her with their whoredom, and she was polluted with them, and her mind was alienated from them.
18 So she discovered her whoredoms, and discovered her nakedness: then my mind was alienated from her, like as my mind was alienated from her sister.
19 Yet she multiplied her whoredoms, in calling to remembrance the days of her youth, wherein she had played the harlot in the land of Egypt.
20 For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh is as the flesh of asses, and whose issue is like the issue of horses.

Javaman

And Jesus has trouble remembering the 10 commandments:

Matthew 19
17 And he said to him, `Why me dost thou call good? no one [is] good except One -- God; but if thou dost will to enter into the life, keep the commands.'
18 He saith to him, `What kind?' And Jesus said, `Thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not commit adultery, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 honour thy father and mother, and, thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.'

Then he goes on to endorse communism... Strange how many God-fearers in the U.S.A. are capitalists, huh?

20 The young man saith to him, `All these did I keep from my youth; what yet do I lack?'
21 Jesus said to him, `If thou dost will to be perfect, go away, sell what thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven, and come, follow me.'
22 And the young man, having heard the word, went away sorrowful, for he had many possessions;
23 and Jesus said to his disciples, `Verily I say to you, that hardly shall a rich man enter into the reign of the heavens;
24 and again I say to you, it is easier for a camel through the eye of a needle to go, than for a rich man to enter into the reign of God.'

Mathetes

I think you are quoting the KJV, which does not clarify what the "flesh of asses" is. Here is Ezekiel 23:20 in the NIV:

Magus55

Mat 27:43 He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God.


Jhn 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Jhn 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.

Jhn 10:29 My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand.

Jhn 10:30 I and [my] Father are one.


Jhn 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Jhn 10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

Jhn 10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father [is] in me, and I in him.

Mageth

In none of which does Jesus assert that he is God.

Jhn 10:30 I and [my] Father are one.

Perhaps the closest, but definitely not a slam-dunk. It could be interpreted in other ways.

Note that the Bible also claims, IIRC, that, when married, the husband and wife become "one flesh". But the husband is not the wife, and the wife is not the husband.

And while we're quoting scriptures:

"And behold, one came and said unto him (Jesus), Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he (Jesus) said unto him, Why callest thou me good? THERE IS NONE GOOD BUT ONE, THAT IS GOD." Matt 19:16-17

Then there's John 17:

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

So if Jesus and God are one, and we also can be one in the same way, does that make us God as well?

Weltall

Hey Magus, you responded to Soul's latest post, how about you respond to mine?

Soul Invictus

The 'Son of God' issue is another contentious issue. Job 1:6 speaks of several sons of God coming unto the Lord, as well as Gen 6:4. If he was purported to be the [only] son of God, that would make for a more worthy discussion, but being that he is not, this verse isn't as readily applicable to my argument. I'm sure we have all heard the allegorical terms of endearment of us all being sons of God (women included), which is an all-inclusive moniker for mankind.His importance, as you stated is inferred though, in terms of his respectability.

Matthew 11:27
"All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.[/i]

Well, maybe not 'clearly' but whoever Jesus is, he must be important:

Again, his important is not denied, however this is easily recognizable to that of a pastor, bishop, or pope in religious clery, wouldn't you agree? Certain people are called as guides for the masses. Isn't this a tenet of relgious thought...a religious leader/mentor or figurehead, so to speak?

[MoreOnTopic]
Matthew 10
36a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.'
37"Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me;
38and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.[/MoreOnTopic]


Still looking for 'Trinity'...

Me too! (Let me know if you find it!)

Soul Invictus

This is a great conciliatory verse. I don't think there is a Christian alive that doesn't believe that God is not in them, and thus they are not in accord or a working vessel in God's body. Everyone does play a role.

Magus55,

I'm not sure exactly what the underlying theme was behind these verses for you, however they didn't really make a case for Jesus being God. Now as a highly esteemed,well endowed vessel and choice for God to teach and educate the people, this seems evident based on what you had to offer. Did you have any other verse for me to reflect over?

Regards,

Soul Invictus

Magus55

Jesus is The Son of God, not a son of God. There is a difference.

Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Humans aren't the begotten sons of God. There is only one Son of God, and that is Jesus.





Only Jesus is denoted as the King of Israel on top of being the Son of God. No other human is called the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. Jesus is also tried for blasphemy by calling himself the Son of God. Obviously if the Jews thought that title was blasphemy, it denoted more than just being a guide or figurehead, but instead equal with YHWH.



http://www.carm.org/doctrine/whatisthetrinity.htm

http://www.carm.org/doctrine/trinity.htm