Freethought & Rationalism Archive

reddhedd · 11-22-2006, 09:22 AM

My Uncle sent me this e-mail, and I'd love to refute it. I have spent the last hour searching the IIDB archives, and keep coming up with the Hyksos expulsion. I really would prefer something more about the physical evidence in the sea.
My uncle is an intelligent, open minded man, and has happily read and approved of my sending him refutations to some of his nonsense... but he likes it to directly pertain to what he sends me. The Hyksos matter is interesting, but not exactly germaine, ya know?
I'd also like to send him some real background on Ron Wyatt.
I'll keep googling, but if anyone has any links to speed the process, that would be great! Back to baking and searching, for me.

Quote:

This is incredible and awesome proof of the accuracy of the Red Sea crossing! Enjoy!

Pharaoh's Drowned Army
Confirmation of the actual Exodus route has come from divers finding coral-encrusted bones and chariot remains in the Gulf of Aqaba
ONE of the most dramatic records of Divine intervention in history is the account of the Hebrews' exodus from Egypt.
The subsequent drowning of the entire Egyptian army in the Red Sea was not an insignificant event, and confirmation of this event is compelling evidence that the Biblical narrative is truly authentic. Over the years, many divers have searched the Gulf of Suez in vain for artifacts to verify the Biblical account. But carefully following the Biblical and historical records of the Exodus brings you to Nuweiba, a large beach in the Gulf of Aqaba, as Ron Wyatt discovered in 1978.
Repeated dives in depths ranging from 60 to 200 feet deep (18m to 60m), over a stretch of almost 2.5 km, has shown that the chariot parts are scattered across the sea bed. Artifacts found include wheels, chariot bodies as well as human and horse bones. Divers have located wreckage on the Saudi coastline opposite Nuweiba as well.
Since 1987, Ron Wyatt found three 4-spoke gilded chariot wheels. Coral does not grow on gold, hence the shape has remained very distinct, although the wood inside the gold veneer has disintegrated making them too fragile to move. The hope for future expeditions is to explore the deeper waters with remote cameras or mini-subs.

1. Coral-encrusted chariot wheel, filmed off the Saudi coastline, matches chariot wheels found in Tutankhamen's tomb
2. Mineralized Bone - One of many found at the crossing site (above center). This one Tested by the Dept. of Osteology at Stockholm University, was found to be a human femur, from the right leg of a 165-170cm tall man. It is essentially 'fossilized' i.e. replaced by minerals and coral, hence cannot be dated by radiocarbon methods, although this specimen was obviously from antiquity.
3. Chariot wheel and axle covered with coral and up-ended. Exodus 14:25 "And took off their chariot wheels, that they drave them heavily:....."

Solomon's memorial pillars
WHEN Ron Wyatt first visited Nuweiba in 1978, he found a Phoenician style column lying in the water. Unfortunately the inscriptions had been eroded away, hence the column's importance was not understood until 1984, when a second granite column was found on the Saudi coastline opposite -- identical to the first, except on this one the inscription was still intact.
In Phoenician letters (Archaic Hebrew), it contained the words: Mizraim (Egypt); Solomon; Edom; death; Pharaoh; Moses; and Yahweh, indicating that King Solomon had set up these columns as a memorial to the miracle of the crossing of the sea. Saudi Arabia does not admit tourists, and perhaps fearing unauthorized visitors, the Saudi Authorities have since removed this column, and replaced it with a flag marker where it once stood.

How deep is the water?
THE Gulf of Aqaba is very deep, in places over a mile (1,600m) deep. Even with the sea dried up, walking across would be difficult due to the steep grade down the sides. But there is one spot where if the water were removed, it would be an easy descent for people and animals. This is the line between Nuweiba and the opposite shore in Saudi Arabia.
Depth-sounding expeditions have revealed a smooth, gentle slope descending from Nuweiba out into the Gulf. This shows up almost like a pathway on depth-recording equipment, confirming it's Biblical description "...a way in the sea, and a path in the mighty waters." (Isaiah 43:16) The Bible writers frequently refer to the miracle of the Red Sea crossing, for it was an event which finds no equal in history.

The Hebrew prophets describe the sea at the crossing site as "...the waters of the great deep ...the depths of the sea..." (Isaiah 51:10). Knowing the exact spot to which the Bible writers were referring, what is the depth there? The distance between Nuweiba and where artifacts have been found on Saudi coast is about 18km (11 miles).Along this line the deepest point is about 800m (2,600 feet). No wonder that Inspired writers of the Bible described it as the mighty waters. And no wonder that not a single Egyptian survived when the water collapsed in upon them.

tia,
redd

pharoah · 11-22-2006, 10:20 AM

Ron Wyatt is a shyster who has been thoroughly ignored and/or discredited by the scientific community and even by fanatical Christian sites such as Answers In Genesis that would have a great stake in his alleged findings. See this Wikipedia article.

Quote:

Ronald Eldon Wyatt (1933 - August 4, 1999) was a controversial self-styled archaeologist (he had no training in the discipline and held no professional position) who claimed to have found many significant biblical sites and artifacts. His claims are ignored by the scientific and historical communities.

Quote:

By the time of his death in 1999 his claimed discoveries included:

* The true Noah's Ark (the Durupinar site, near but not on Mount Ararat)
* Anchor stones (actually drogue stones) used by Noah on the Ark
* The post-flood house and tombs of Noah and his wife
* The location of Sodom and Gomorrah
* Sulfur balls from the burning of Sodom and Gomorrah
* The site of the Israelites' crossing of the Red Sea (which Wyatt located in the Gulf of Aqaba)
* Chariot wheels and other relics of the pursuing army of Pharaoh at the bottom of the sea
* The true site of the biblical Mt. Sinai (located by Wyatt in Saudi Arabia at Jabal al Lawz)
* A chamber at the end of a maze of tunnels under Jerusalem containing artifacts from Solomon's temple
* The Ark of the Covenant
* The original stones of the Ten Commandments
* The true site of the Crucifixion
* The blood of Jesus, dripped onto the Mercy seat of the Ark of the Covenant, directly beneath the Crucifixion

Weltall · 11-22-2006, 10:38 AM

I don't know why I'm dignifying Wyatt's 'work' with any sort of response but... Coral doesn't grow on gold? Funny, I thought it could grow on pretty much anything including rubber. I love how the wheels are 'too fragile to move', another way of saying 'I've got proof but I can't show it to you', pretty much like all his finds.

Malachi151 · 11-22-2006, 10:49 AM

Ask the Rabbi:

http://ohr.edu/ask_db/ask_main.php/273/Q1/

Quote:

"Soof" means "reeds." The Jews crossed the "Yam Soof" which means the "Sea of Reeds."

There are several views in our commentaries as to what the Yam Suf is. It may have been the Gulf of Suez, which branches up from what is today called the Red Sea. Others identify it with the large delta at the mouth of the Nile in the North of Egypt; interestingly, in ancient Egyptian, the swampy Delta districts were called "sufi."

gregor · 11-22-2006, 11:56 AM

Wyatt??

Please review:

http://www.tentmaker.org/Dew/Dew7/D7...stianScam.html

reddhedd · 11-22-2006, 05:37 PM

pharoah, That's a great link! I'll be sending it along...

Weltall,
Is it true or false, that coral will not grow on gold? Everything I've found says it grows on pretty much anything firm/solid. And I've spent much of today looking for evidence for that statement; the ONLY place I've found that statement is on his website.
And my son asked the same thing; why can't you move gold, just because there's no wood under it? I have no answer....

gregor, I found that, too. Thanks; it says a lot, and it's in my drafted letter back to Uncle.

Malachi 151,
I have no idea what your link has to do with what I'm asking. I've been cooking all day, and taking care of a sick child, so I'm pretty sure it must be my scatter brain. Can you please spell out your point? TY.

redd

Malachi151 · 11-22-2006, 05:39 PM

There is no story about crossing the Red Sea at all in the first place, the whole thing stems from a mistranslation.

The real text says the Reed Sea, not the Red Sea. The Reed Sea was a swamp, the story is really completely different than it is portrayed by Christians, as this Jewish Rabbi was explaining.

Weltall · 11-22-2006, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reddhedd

Weltall,
Is it true or false, that coral will not grow on gold? Everything I've found says it grows on pretty much anything firm/solid.

While I can't say with 100% accuracy that it will (I'm just an amateur marine biologist), I'd be willing to bet money that coral bloody well can grow on gold. I know from plenty of personal experience that it can grow on seeded rubber tires and aluminum hulls so it's not much of a stretch.

jgibson000 · 11-22-2006, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malachi151

There is no story about crossing the Red Sea at all in the first place, the whole thing stems from a mistranslation.

The real text says the Reed Sea, not the Red Sea. The Reed Sea was a swamp, the story is really completely different than it is portrayed by Christians, as this Jewish Rabbi was explaining.

Are you actually saying that there are no Christians, let alone Christian biblical scholars, who know and/or who have stated to others (portrayed) that Yam Suph means "sea of reeds" and that the exodus story describes a crossing of the "reed sea"??

Jeffrey Gibson

Fundamentally Flawed · 11-22-2006, 06:27 PM

Sounds to me like a sensationalist with alternative motives.

Finding chariot wheels in the Red Sea should not be surprising. Were chariots not sometimes transported via boat? And could not those been lost at sea?

Now to rehash an old argument...

3 million Hebrews crossing the Red Sea 2 abreast:

If three million Hebrews participated in the exodus from Egypt (as indicated by the Old Testament) the subsequent line of humans walking two abreast would have resulted in two parallel rows with 1.5 million people in each. Allowing four feet per person, the line would have been 6 million feet long. Dividing 6 million feet by 5,280 feet per mile, the line of Hebrews would have stretched 1,136 miles. That’s about the distance from the northern tip of Michigan to the Gulf of Mexico. However, the distance from Egypt to Canaan is only about 200 miles. The Sinai Peninsula’s shoreline is 130 miles.

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11-22-2006, 10:38 AM	#3
Weltall Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: San Francisco Posts: 3,283	I don't know why I'm dignifying Wyatt's 'work' with any sort of response but... Coral doesn't grow on gold? Funny, I thought it could grow on pretty much anything including rubber. I love how the wheels are 'too fragile to move', another way of saying 'I've got proof but I can't show it to you', pretty much like all his finds.

11-22-2006, 11:56 AM	#5
gregor Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Texas Posts: 932	Wyatt?? Please review: http://www.tentmaker.org/Dew/Dew7/D7...stianScam.html

11-22-2006, 05:37 PM	#6
reddhedd Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: I'm down here! Posts: 1,757	pharoah, That's a great link! I'll be sending it along... Weltall, Is it true or false, that coral will not grow on gold? Everything I've found says it grows on pretty much anything firm/solid. And I've spent much of today looking for evidence for that statement; the ONLY place I've found that statement is on his website. And my son asked the same thing; why can't you move gold, just because there's no wood under it? I have no answer.... gregor, I found that, too. Thanks; it says a lot, and it's in my drafted letter back to Uncle. Malachi 151, I have no idea what your link has to do with what I'm asking. I've been cooking all day, and taking care of a sick child, so I'm pretty sure it must be my scatter brain. Can you please spell out your point? TY. redd

11-22-2006, 05:39 PM	#7
Malachi151 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Colorado Posts: 8,674	There is no story about crossing the Red Sea at all in the first place, the whole thing stems from a mistranslation. The real text says the Reed Sea, not the Red Sea. The Reed Sea was a swamp, the story is really completely different than it is portrayed by Christians, as this Jewish Rabbi was explaining.

11-22-2006, 06:27 PM	#10
Fundamentally Flawed New Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Indiana Posts: 3	Sounds to me like a sensationalist with alternative motives. Finding chariot wheels in the Red Sea should not be surprising. Were chariots not sometimes transported via boat? And could not those been lost at sea? Now to rehash an old argument... 3 million Hebrews crossing the Red Sea 2 abreast: If three million Hebrews participated in the exodus from Egypt (as indicated by the Old Testament) the subsequent line of humans walking two abreast would have resulted in two parallel rows with 1.5 million people in each. Allowing four feet per person, the line would have been 6 million feet long. Dividing 6 million feet by 5,280 feet per mile, the line of Hebrews would have stretched 1,136 miles. That’s about the distance from the northern tip of Michigan to the Gulf of Mexico. However, the distance from Egypt to Canaan is only about 200 miles. The Sinai Peninsula’s shoreline is 130 miles.

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