Wayne Delia

Well, if you're willing to ignore observable facts about the universe, and the peer-reviewed scientific research of tangible, reliable evidence published in scientific journals, then I suppose a lot of what the Bible says might make sense. But that could also be applied to the Lord of the Rings trilogy or any other epic, mythical literature.

What about the "historical texts" of other non-Christian holy scriptures, such as the various scientific claims made by Moslems based on the "historical texts" in the Qu'ran? You won't go near accepting those non-Christian claims, but they're using the same line of reasoning as you - it's included in a "historical text."

But in order for the story in the Book of Joshua to be true under that scenario, the sun would have to be revolving around the earth in what's called a "geo-synchronous orbit" - the sun would be orbiting at a fixed position in the sky - and the astronomical implications of that happening would certainly result in a noticeable disruption of the solar system ("noticeable", meaning the earth would have been destroyed.) In order to keep that myth intact, we'd need to ignore all that we know about planetary physical mechanics today.

And that would have resulted in the shearing of the earth to its core due to inertia of motion, splitting off into many large pieces and violently shattering into uninhabitable asteroids, based on the physics we know to be true today. That would be true whether it was a case of the earth stopping its rotation, or if the sun suddenly revolved around the earth in a geo-synchronous orbit.

But it would make for terrific special effects in a science-fiction fantasy movie.

WMD

Wayne Delia

Exactly what is necessarily wrong with Bishop Ussher's (note the correct spelling) calculations? Please be specific, and point out where his figures are necessarly wrong. I bet you can't. Rather than admit you haven't supported your case, you'll snag on to any crackpot website which you think agrees with you, and you present that as if it's authoritative. Your inability and unwillingness to admit you're wrong will always work against you in situations like this one.

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Wayne Delia

If that was the same John who wrote Revelations, that's understandable. He must have been high on mushrooms indigenous to the Island of Patmos to be that incomprehensible.

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Wayne Delia

Followed by...

I am strongly reminded of former Vice President Dan Quayle's strong condemnation of Salman Rushdie's The Satanic Verses as heretical, despite him not having actually read the book or being in any way familiar with what the book contained.

WMD

Bearlaker

"I am he as you are me as you are we and we are all together."

Wayne Delia

When rhutchin was a Christian, he was a Calvinist, and it is part of their doctrine to imagine "once a Christian, always a Christian" and those who leave the faith were never Christian. rhutchin did not address the question of whether he could tell if he was a true Christian given that he might leave the faith some time in the unforseeable future. Ironically, rhutchin was challenged to present a set of criteria by which a person can be determined to be a True Christian. Of the four criteria he presented from the Bible, one criteria eliminated everybody who is currently alive, and he was disqualified from being a Christian by two of the other criteria.

I am not making this up.

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Wayne Delia

The obvious answer is that anything which agrees with what rhutchin believes must be right, since if it wasn't right, rhutchin wouldn't believe it. And really, the difference between a young earth of 10,000 years and a young earth of 6,010 years (according to Ussher) is trivial, since they are both incorrect by several orders of magnitude. It's just that rhutchin has unusual trouble admitting he's wrong, even if he's contradicted by the Bible or by fundamentalist Christian scholars such as Ussher.

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Wayne Delia

The Catholic Church, for centuries, recited the weekly Masses in Latin, and only relatively recently (1960s?) began presenting them in English. To my knowledge, the Catholic Church still does not make Bibles available in pews for parishoners to read, and the Church continues to discourage independent Bible study.

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Jack the Bodiless

Various IIDB members have tried dating the Biblical creation and flood recently, on the thread Alternative Biblical dates for the Flood?

Using the Masoretic genealogies (as adopted by the KJV and subsequent translations) apparently gives 1492 BC for the Exodus, 2474 BC for the Flood, and 4130 BC for the Creation.

rhutchin

When one researcher calculates a date of creation of 4004 BC and another researcher calculates it at 13,000 BC, I think it is safe to presume that each used a different line of reasoning. When others explain the method that Ussher used and it fits his end result, then one can presume that the secondary sources are probably accurate.

Others can do the same thing. Since Delia does not explain the context for Quayle’s remarks it is hard to tell if either really knows much.