Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Diogenes the Cynic · 01-22-2005, 04:59 PM

The Suffering Servant? Are you kidding?

For some reason I thought you'd bring something more sophisticated than that.

Steven Carr · 01-23-2005, 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic

Defining "city" vs. "country" isn't really the issue. My question is whether there is a non-literal way to interpret "stone to death."

It is a question that Metacrock is going to ignore......

neozen · 01-23-2005, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cweb255

Um, where does God say this again? Oh wait, he doesn't.
:banghead:

"Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength."
--Deuteronomy 6:5

"Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD."
--Leviticus 19:18

Vorkosigan · 01-23-2005, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Calzaer: Yes. And, if Jesus is really THE Jesus, Isaiah was a false prophet as well. All sorts of Messianic prophecies that never came to pass were his work.

Metacrock: Not true! Read Edershiem

Calzaer is correct. True. Can you unleash some of Edersheim's brilliance on us? I am sure we'll be overwhelmed by the 120 year old apologetic writings of a converted Jew and missionary.

Vorkosigan

Metacrock · 01-23-2005, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vorkosigan

Calzaer is correct. True. Can you unleash some of Edersheim's brilliance on us? I am sure we'll be overwhelmed by the 120 year old apologetic writings of a converted Jew and missionary.

Vorkosigan

why would the Talmud change? One mark of a true scholar is to understand the value of old writtings. It's the mark of a true amature not to appreiciate anything old but to think the only valid info has to be as new as possible.

Metacrock · 01-23-2005, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic

The Suffering Servant? Are you kidding?

For some reason I thought you'd bring something more sophisticated than that.

He doesn't even read the page and goes off half cocked with this garage idiocy about "this what everyone says." It's common knowledge. everyone says the SS is not the Messiah, so he can't. end of discussion!

Metacrock · 01-23-2005, 03:20 PM

Use Edersheim to document all the Talmudic passages. The best thing about him is his list of 450 passage and where the Talmud says they are Messinaich. that's invaluable because I don't think a modern list of that kind exists.

hey you specifically asked for Iaiah. What you want, blood from a stove? you want sophisticated, next time as me about Heidegger!

Edit by mod to remove cut and paste.

Please use this URL:

http://www.geocities.com/metacrock20...iah/Isa53.html

Diogenes the Cynic · 01-23-2005, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metacrock

He doesn't even read the page and goes off half cocked with this garage idiocy about "this what everyone says." It's common knowledge. everyone says the SS is not the Messiah, so he can't. end of discussion!

It's common knowledge that the SS is specifically identified as Israel multiple times within the text.

There is not the slightest reason to read it as Messianic. Not the slightest.

Diogenes the Cynic · 01-23-2005, 03:39 PM

No Talmudic commentary is meaningful since a.) it's all post CE and b.) it has nothing to do with revealing the intent of the author and the intent of the author is all that matters.

Do some basic research on the OT Messiah. The SS is not even close.

Also, you know it's specious to try to brandish the Gospels as "fulfilled prophecy" since the Gospels were fabricated largely from cherry picked passages, decontextualized and reassembled to create fictional narratives. Do you think Jesus was riding one animal or two when he rode into Jesrusalem?

And watch it with the "idiocy" remarks. I have not insulted you and I have mod powers now.

Steven Carr · 01-23-2005, 03:56 PM

Is the word Messiah in Isaiah 53?

Is the word Messiah elsewhere in Isaiah?

Why are the Messianic prophecies in Isaiah, not where Isaiah is talking about the Messiah?

Surely a prophecy all about the Messiah would at least us the word once, if not more times?

01-23-2005, 03:20 PM	#77
Metacrock Banned Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Dallas, Texas, USA Posts: 1,734	Suffering Servant, Close reading--inlvoves Edersheim Use Edersheim to document all the Talmudic passages. The best thing about him is his list of 450 passage and where the Talmud says they are Messinaich. that's invaluable because I don't think a modern list of that kind exists. hey you specifically asked for Iaiah. What you want, blood from a stove? you want sophisticated, next time as me about Heidegger! Edit by mod to remove cut and paste. Please use this URL: http://www.geocities.com/metacrock20...iah/Isa53.html

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01-22-2005, 04:59 PM	#71
Diogenes the Cynic Moderator - Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Posts: 4,639	The Suffering Servant? Are you kidding? For some reason I thought you'd bring something more sophisticated than that.

01-23-2005, 03:39 PM	#79
Diogenes the Cynic Moderator - Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Posts: 4,639	No Talmudic commentary is meaningful since a.) it's all post CE and b.) it has nothing to do with revealing the intent of the author and the intent of the author is all that matters. Do some basic research on the OT Messiah. The SS is not even close. Also, you know it's specious to try to brandish the Gospels as "fulfilled prophecy" since the Gospels were fabricated largely from cherry picked passages, decontextualized and reassembled to create fictional narratives. Do you think Jesus was riding one animal or two when he rode into Jesrusalem? And watch it with the "idiocy" remarks. I have not insulted you and I have mod powers now.

01-23-2005, 03:56 PM	#80
Steven Carr Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: England Posts: 5,629	Is the word Messiah in Isaiah 53? Is the word Messiah elsewhere in Isaiah? Why are the Messianic prophecies in Isaiah, not where Isaiah is talking about the Messiah? Surely a prophecy all about the Messiah would at least us the word once, if not more times?

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