Narapoia

I have just started an interesting book called The Hiram Key by Christopher Knight and Robert Lomas. In it they question who was actually crucifed in the events described in the bible (in an early chapter, the rest of the book is about the Freemasons).

Matthew 27:16 reads "At the time there was a well known prisoner named Jesus Barabbas" this of course being the well known criminal released by the crowd when asked by Pilate who they wanted to go free. The authors state that Barabbas in the language of the day (Aramaic?) can be translated as 'The son of the Father', meaning the 'The son of God' as the term Father in this context was always used to describe God.

This means that the person chosen to be freed was 'Jesus the son of God'. Given muslims believe that jesus was a prophet condemned to crucifiction but whose place was taken by onother this raises a very interesting point. Who was freed and who was executed?
Apart from the obvious problems with using the bible as a source reliable historical information has anyone heard this point raised before? Would be interested to hear any comments or observations.

Chili

Jesus had a dual nature, one was Jesus-the-Man and the other was Jesus-the-Jew. The Jews looked at and accused Jesus-the-Jew for violating Jewish law-- of which Pilate had no knowledge because he was not a Jew. Pilate asked them to look at "the man" three times, first in Jn. 18:29, then in Jn.18:38 and again in Jn.19:5 but they insisted (as they should) that Jesus be crucified because that was a the purpose of the law (the law was given to Moses to convict sinners).

Jesus Barrabas was a prisoner only means that Jesus-the-Jew was the oppressive nature in this duality and therefore needed to be crucified to set Jesus-son-man free.

The outcome is simple: they crucified the bare naked ego and no more.

Baidarka

Either Chili is Amos or Amos has a brother. Whoooo-eeee!

River

visit my thread

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=88542

The Greatest Story NEVER told: The Truth of the Crucifiction

It might give new light ....

a new perspective.....

of viewing the ....

---River

dado

there is no record in any of the canonical x'ian texts of jesus having a Jewish trial.

yummyfur

And Peter had followed him afar off, even within, into the court of the high priest; and he was sitting with the officers, and warming himself in the light of the fire. 14:55Now the chief priests and the whole council sought witness against Jesus to put him to death; and found it not. 14:56For many bare false witness against him, and their witness agreed not together. 14:57And there stood up certain, and bare false witness against him, saying, 14:58We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and in three days I will build another made without hands. 14:59And not even so did their witness agree together. 14:60And the high priest stood up in the midst, and asked Jesus, saying, Answerest thou nothing? what is it which these witness against thee? 14:61But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and saith unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed? 14:62And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven. 14:63And the high priest rent his clothes, and saith, What further need have we of witnesses? 14:64Ye have heard the blasphemy: what think ye? And they all condemned him to be worthy of death. 14:65And some began to spit on him, and to cover his face, and to buffet him, and to say unto him, Prophesy: and the officers received him with blows of their hands. 14:66And as Peter was beneath in the court, there cometh one of the maids of the high priest; 14:67and seeing Peter warming himself, she looked upon him, and saith, Thou also wast with the Nazarene, even Jesus. 14:68But he denied, saying, I neither know, nor understand what thou sayest: and he went out into the porch; and the cock crew. 14:69And the maid saw him, and began again to say to them that stood by, This is one of them. 14:70But he again denied it. And after a little while again they that stood by said to Peter, of a truth thou art one of them; for thou art a Galilaean. 14:71But he began to curse, and to swear, I know not this man of whom ye speak. 14:72And straightway the second time the cock crew. And Peter called to mind the word, how that Jesus said unto him, Before the cock crow twice, thou shalt deny me thrice. And when he thought thereon, he wept.

15:1And straightway in the morning the chief priests with the elders and scribes, and the whole council, held a consultation, and bound Jesus, and carried him away, and delivered him up to Pilate.




Though I don't really agree with Chili's points. This whole sequence sounds like a trial to me, maybe I'm wrong?

Patrick Schoeb

Chili

Amos lost his E-mail address and this was the easiest way to deal with it.

Chili

Yes, it's a shocking reality but true nonetheless. Interesting here is that we stand convicted when seeking to be justified and seek conviction to be crucified/mortified.

dado

this issue has come up before. what is being described may be any number of things, but a Jewish trial is not one of them - Sanhedrin doesn't meet at night, doesn't meet during holy days, High Priest does not prosecute capital cases, etc etc etc - this has been discussed before, should be able to search on it - so either there really was a trial and whoever edited the gospels got it really, really wrong, or there was no Jewish trial and no Jewish conviction.